Tankadin core talent spec

Overall I love the thread and appreciate the OP’s template. But I know I am a newb at tanking and have a lot to learn, so I would like to ask a question.

Why 5/5 Ardent Defender for Heroics and Karazhan?

Its use is obvious for SSC/TK/BT/MH and probably ZA. But in the KZ/Heroic tanking I have been doing I never drop below 50% unless the healer(s) are dead/disconnected. Even then the dps’ers either die before me or feign death, etc. and my continuing survival tends to annoy everyone rather than leading to a win.

Thanks for the advice.
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http://armorylite.com/us/medivh/michaelberea

A lot of key points in here are targeted. I do appreciate the detail gone into some of these threads, especially this one. I can tell that there has been a lot of effort put into threads like this. I am really going to try to be more of a reader than a talker until I feel like I’ve done enough research. Although I do want to raise a few questions.

My biggest question is concerning One-Handed Weapon Specialization.
I feel like melee damage is as useful and as trying to light your way through a dark tunnel with a melted candle. The only perk in my opinion to One-Handed Weapon Specialization is towards Seal of Blood, which its proc is based on weapon damage. If you’re looking for higher Seal of Blood procs, you’re sacrificing your gears limits to gain strength, obtaining one-handed weapons which have DPS over high spell damage, and other possible limiting factors to your spell damage.

In reality, I think the DPS of a weapon and the damage incurred by your melee attacks is ultimately useless. Don’t need it. That’s why I would choose a spell damage one hand over DPS.

So I would say if you’re going to get One-Handed Weapon Spec, knock that out of the equation and get something like spell warding, and precision. Spell Warding although seems almost futile, but does the 6% damage from Improved Righteous Fury mean nothing at all either? Obviously you get Imp Righteous Fury for the high taunt, but if you get the 6% from that, add that will the Spell damage, there is 10% reduced spell damage. At least for a 5man build, I see strong points in that in Mgt.
My build I chose, which in my opinion is suited mainly for 5-10man runs. There are some things I would switch out for anything 10man+ runs, like getting rid of reckoning and getting precision.

Level 70 Paladin (0/46/15)

Holy (0 points)

None

Protection (46 points)

Redoubt - Rank 5/5
Toughness - Rank 5/5
Blessing of Kings - Rank 1/1
Improved Righteous Fury - Rank 3/3
Shield Specialization - Rank 3/3
Anticipation - Rank 5/5
Spell Warding - Rank 2/2
Blessing of Sanctuary - Rank 1/1
Reckoning - Rank 5/5
Sacred Duty - Rank 2/2
Improved Holy Shield - Rank 2/2
Holy Shield - Rank 1/1
Ardent Defender - Rank 5/5
Combat Expertise - Rank 5/5
Avenger's Shield - Rank 1/1

Retribution (15 points)

Benediction - Rank 5/5
Improved Judgement - Rank 2/2
Deflection - Rank 5/5
Pursuit of Justice - Rank 3/3



I avoided anything that would seem PvP oriented. Things like Stoicism and Imp. Concentration aura I use in my Holy PvP build, and skip in my Holy PvE build which is about 46/15/0, something like that, I keep forgetting the specifics.

Improved Judgment although cannot work with some Paladins due to it is actually too fast, and can even effect their spell rotation. I honestly probably don’t always use that 8 seconds and in the rotation it ends up even being 10. However, I prefer it over improved SotC. Contrary to my 5man belief, that being there will not be other paladins there with it, small detail that can be altered however. Talents are always personal preference. I personally like to use JoR as much as possible to get that holy damage in there, and being able to pop other Judgments slightly faster.

Pursuit of Justice, I think just has those minor perks that I really enjoy. The less damage I take, the better, the more mobile I am, and the more comfortable I feel. More comfort than need, better than melee damage.
After the change to Ardent Defender, I like it a lot. No, you don’t want to be below 35%. But in the 5man situation, it does happen, and it’s an added comfort giving you more room to breath. Plus with that 30% damage reduction, I think of it stacking up with my other percentage reducers.

I really do like to try and get the most mitigation and the best treat increasers as possible. I think most of my damage tank wise is going to have both of those. Which is always an added raid bonus.
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Naiddean - Level 70 Human Paladin of Blackhand
Tifany - Level 70 Blood Elf Paladin of Blackhand
Not a Healadin, Ret Fanatic, Or a Tankadin, I'm a Paladin. I do it all.

Though it's been covered elsewhere, in response to the above post I have to stress:

One-Handed Weapon Specialization : Increases all damage you deal when a one-handed weapon is equipped by 5%.

All damage. 5% more physical damage per swing (meh), 5% more SoR damage, 5% more JoR damage, 5% more Consecration/Holy Shield/BoSanc/Exorcism/AS....the list goes on. If we have any single must have threat talent, it is One-Handed Weapon Specialization. Heck, I wish it was as strong as the warrior version...they get 10% bonus to everything they do for threat.
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It's AIRSOME!

I almost want to go back and see if One-Handed Weapon Specialization has been changed. Any time frame between TBC launch and now is a viable time frame for me, as I have been absent for a majority of it.

A lot of my knowledge dates back to pre-tbc when I uesd to play almost every day scince November.

Regardless, you caught me. After reading the spec again I see the wording now. Now I just feel stupid.

I just still have this deep old memory that says it was at one time only melee damage, so I probably read it that way.

Edit: My memory does serve me something, doing some reading it did used to be only melee damage was increased, again, my poor reading comprehension and past memories. I'll keep reading, keep learning. Sorry for the mistake.
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Naiddean - Level 70 Human Paladin of Blackhand
Tifany - Level 70 Blood Elf Paladin of Blackhand
Not a Healadin, Ret Fanatic, Or a Tankadin, I'm a Paladin. I do it all.

I have seen some specs on protections paladins that actually go 2/5 on toughness and 3/3 on pursuit of justice.

For example:
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-talents.xml?r=Suramar&n=Honsus

I understand the extra armor we gain from toughness is vital, but how does that compare to having the spell hit reduction and movement speed?

Someone posted on this thread about how they like the increased run speed and hit reduction...for me, I like the extra run speed when trying to chase down mobs that run away from me (RD on CD). The extra armor would reduce melee hits, but I presume at 70, we`re uncrushable/uncrittable....and we also have some amazing block % (HS and Redoubt), that we shouldn`t worry too much about the 6% armor.

or does this just come down to personal preference? or perhaps what we`re trying to tank?

I`m sure if I said Grull, you would say go toughness, but if I said Kael`Thas, you would say Pursuit.

Thanks for your help guys!

6% armor can be anywhere from a 3% reduction to all physical damage to a 10% reduction to all physical damage relative to where you were. Even at 3% reduction to all physical damage, you are trading:

3% reduction to all physical damage
for
3% avoidance on all spells and minor run speed increase.

A more concrete example. A pre-Kara tankadin will have roughly 12k armor. 6% of that is 720 more armor. That would represent a % change reduction of 1.5%, but a relative change of 4% in damage taken. And that's a pre-Kara tankadin. When you start getting into the higher levels, you get more benefit from it. Toughness is one of the few abilities that scales with gear.

Which do you think you take more damage from, regularly? Which do you think will reduce your overall damage more often?

Now, yes, if you plan on tanking only Kael, never anything else, not Sanguinar, not the adds, not anything in Hyjal or BT...it may be a good idea to swap. But most of the time it is simply the wrong choice. Physical damage is way too prevalent and armor is way too good of a stat.

Okay, that`s what I thought.

Since toughness scales, this would mean the healers would be working a bit less later in the game, assuming my gear is up to par with the encounter.

I guess I`ll be going 49/12 as well!

Thanks for the reply ~ you guys are really knowledgeable here!

can we please get a update to this sticky, or remove it altogether since it is no longer relevant?
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kalbear
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 1337




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