3.2 Specs: Summary of options

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZA0xA0uMusIufdxo:pGZmc
this is your "base" spec, leaving 12 points left to spend, as well as the 3 points in Divinity to move around as you see fit between reckoning, Divine guardian, Imp.HoJ and Stoicism.

Now, what to do with the 12 remaining points?

You can buy:
SotP
cost: 5
This is the best talent to take for your first 5 threat talent points assuming you don't open crusade. Each point is worth more than a point in Conviction, and about the same as a point in Crusade vs normal mobs, but half as much vs the applicable mob types (Human, Undead, Elemental, Demon)

Healing Light / Divine Intellect / Unyielding faith
Cost: SotP + 5
None of these are useful for tanking. Unyielding faith might be useful on a few boss fights, but isn't really needed. You are taking these only to open the next tier of the holy tree which has some goodies in.

Imp.Lay on hands
cost: SotP + 5 + 2 (12)
This costs you all your available talent points, and gives you a powerful CD on a very long CD. Probably not worth taking. Ret/Holy can also provide

Aura Mastery
cost: SotP + 5 +1
This costs nearly all your available points, and gives a moderately useful CD for fights with AoE silence or resitable damage. Ret/Holy can also provide.

Divinity
cost: 2
Assuming you want 5/5 Divinity, you already have 3 points in it. This talent is of questionable worth for MTing, but it is a survivability increase.

Reckoning
cost: 2
Assuming you want 5/5 reckoning, you already have 3 points in it from your 3 "free" prot points. Each point here is worth less threat than a point in SotP or Conviction so putting points here should only be done in a build with 5/5 SotP where you aren't going into ret beyond the base build of 6.

3Heart of the Crusader + 1Benediction / imp.BoM
cost: 4
Not really worth taking, but if you want the better ret talents you have to open the tree. Heart is useful in 10m where you might not have a ret paladin / elem shammie. Taking Imp.BoM might be useful for some 10m groups, or 25m groups depending on your setup. You will very very rarely bless this on yourself though, unless there is another Prot paladin, and another paladin without imp.BoM (which most holy and ret have.)

Vindication
cost: 4+2
Very powerful talent, its a nearly 100% uptime max power demo shout. This is the biggest survivability talent we can take with our 12 points.

Pursuit of Justice
cost: 4+2
15% faster speed! What's not to like? More speed = more threat and less damage taken for the majority of fights.

Conviction
cost: 4+ x
Points here are better spent in SotP, so don't buy points in Conviction unless you are opening the way to...

Crusade
cost 4 + 5 + 3 (12)
Taking 3/3 crusade costs you all your available points, but only 4 of those points are really wasted. Each point here is worth about double a point in SotP against Hued (or DUH) mobs (Human, undead, elemental, demon) so taking this is better than SoTP once you have unlocked it. Against non-Hued (beasts, dragonkin, mechanical, no-type) its worth the same as SotP (But worse if you have to spend a point in Conviction to open it up). The majority of fights in 3.2 are Hued though.

Glyphs:
Divine Plea and Seal of Vengeance are pretty much mandatory. For your last slot you have a choice of:
Glyph of Salvation: An extra CD at the cost of threat
Glyph of HotR: Helps on 4-target tanking.
Glyph of Righteous Defence: Makes your taunts never miss, which could be useful for some fights if you have low hit rating.

How is everyone going to spend their points?

I'm leaning towards Crusade(vindication, PoJ) with either Conviction or 2/2 Imp.BoM for my discretionary points and either 3/5 Divinity or 2/5 with Divine Sacrifice.

I'll probably be going with something like:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#szZE0xA0 ... M0b:pGkmcz

The only time I've had a threat problem ever is on Vezax 10 when OOM so I might as well take Divinity. I consider PoJ and the new single target Demo Shout to be almost must-haves. Last point in SotP as the next-best threat option that I have access to.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAbuMusIufdxfMobc

I will be speccing this, still debating whether I want the 3 points in Div Sac and Div Guardian or if id rather have them elsewhere.

No way am I skipping out on crusade

kanst wrote:http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAbuMusIufdxfMobc

I will be speccing this, still debating whether I want the 3 points in Div Sac and Div Guardian or if id rather have them elsewhere.

No way am I skipping out on crusade

This, except that I might (might) drop the 2 points from DG into Imp HoJ while retaining Divine Sacrifice. Dropping two points for a slightly buffed Sacrifice isn't as attractive now that we won't be able to use Sacred Shield on ourselves, if you're like me and run with 2 Holy paladins.

Will Vindication have 100% uptime naturally? If not, I would think reckoning is a good choice in the 53/18 discretionary three. Its tps + the chance to proc Vinidication.

I'll still be 53/18, but taking points from Conviction for Vindication. I'll be keeping DS/DG, as I won't always have a holy pally keeping SS on me.

repent wrote:Will Vindication have 100% uptime naturally? If not, I would think reckoning is a good choice in the 53/18 discretionary three. Its tps + the chance to proc Vinidication.

PTR reports indicated that it very rarely fell off, if at all.

Since I have only one holy paladin in the raid, is it useful to me to take DG? I can always assign him to heal the other tank if it's a multiple tank fight and I rarely tank single tank fights. Does the 3.2 Ret spec have DG in it as well?

Ok wow where did i miss this in over a year of playing, I though PoJ increases movement (run speed), but from what you are saying, it is actually a "haste" type attribute? Really? I never took it as i thought it just made me run quicker. I didn't see the importance. So.....it is a haste effect then? If that's true /facepalm

Oh and dont laugh at my signature, I logged out in ret spec lol.

Its not haste, its runspeed!

But, more runspeed = getting to the mob faster, which means more threat, and you move out of AOE effects faster so you take less damage. Pretty imba.

ah ok, im glad i wasnt totally out of it for the year, thanks for the clarification =)

That would be my build:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAbuMusIufdts0hbc


I don't know why you discussing anything here. Here are the changes for tankadins again:

mmo-champion.com wrote:# Protection

* Ardent Defender: Redesigned. Any damage that takes the paladin below 35% health is reduced. This reduction applies only to the portion that pushes the paladin below 35% health (example: a paladin at 50% health takes a 40% hit; the first 15% hits as normal while the next 25% is reduced). In addition, once every 2 minutes an attack that would have killed the paladin will fail to kill, and instead heal the paladin for up to 10/20/30% of maximum health depending on the paladin's defense rating (example: a paladin with defense equal to only 5 times his or her level will receive no healing from the talent, while a paladin who is immune to critical strikes from boss creatures through defense will receive the maximum amount).
* Guarded by the Light: This talent will no longer cause Divine Plea's duration to be refreshed by using Judgement of Wisdom, Judgement of Justice, or Judgement of Light.

+ Hand of Reckoning: Redesigned. Now does damage only when the target does not currently have the caster targeted, but damage done increased to 50% of attack power, occurring after the taunt effect is applied.

So why you have to redesign anything at your talent build?
There are still the different builds for MT/TPS/Survive. Nothing special will happen with the patch :S.

Other than Sacred Shield no longer stacking, Seal of Vengeance changing mechanics, and Vindication now being an imp.demo shout...

Yes, I agree with you.

But that is nothing special that it need to develop a new build ^^.

Vindication - You have to talk to your warrior/wl/... dudes at your guild -> Put points here if you need.
Sacred Shield - You have to talk to your paladin dudes at your guild -> Put points here if you need.
SoV - Because of that changes you need to redesign your build?

well, SoV is now better than conviction, and equal to crusade on non-Hued mobs so it does change where you stick points!