Am I wrong to ask the tank to get 490 def b4 anything else?

So I was healing a normal Bot the other day on my holy pally. My gear are mostly from quest and normal instances, 9k mana, +1100 healing, 13% spell crit. I know it's not much but for normal instances I've healed like all of them except Arc no problem.

I noticed the pally tank with us is using a SunEater, so I said to myself, nice, tank has done heroics so this shouldn't be of any trouble. But what happens next is the otherway around. His hp drops very abruptly from time to time. I had a few near-fail in keeping him up b4 the first boss. So I take a closer look at his gear. You may guessed it, he is in all blues with 2-3 greens. Some are not even tanking gear but spell dmg ones. K I understand that helps build-up threat so not a total waste. But what I cant understand is all the gem slots are filled with +agi/+stm ones, or purely +stm ones. Not even 1 gem with +def. So I asked how many def he is having, and the answer is 430+, but then he emphasize to me he has much more dodge with all those +agi gems and enchants, and it's better overall for mitigation.

I wasn't quite clear about all the tanking stats, but I remember saw this 490def all over the tanking forum. So is it true that +agi provides more damage mitigation than same lvl of +def gem/enchants? Even it is I feel it's more difficult for the healer to handle abrupt hp drop than a more steady predictable hp drop even the later is slightly faster overall.

His defense is too low. He does NOT need 490, however. Botanica and Arkatraz, in particular, are harder 5-man normal instances. The mobs in there hit pretty hard, so you would expect any tank there to take more damage.

That said, for normal instances, 460+ defense is sufficient, obviously, more is better =) But, the problem with +490 is a paladin tank will take way less damage, and not get healed enough, thus not get enough mana back, and as a result will have a harder time holding aggro.

That the tank WAS USING the suneater should have tipped you off that he is, in fact, an incompetent fool =) Sure, it comes from a heroic instance, but it is, however, a pathetic paladin tank weapon.

In sum, normal instances 460+ defense is enough, though, probably for Bot and Arkatraz, you will want a tank to have at least 475, since they are tougher. 460 is enough, if they know how to play, and have good dodge, spell damage (to hold aggro), bloc, and parry.

I never said "ZOMFG B UNCRHUSHHHHHHHH OR DIEZZZZZZ" ... I said as close to it as possible... Why?

Because, if you're not doing raids yet, the easiest stat to stack for uncrush is block rating.

Hmmmmmm...................... 24% chance to block? In an instance? And I'm 2% crushable? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

"As close to uncrushable as possible." You don't have to be. But it's cooler.

No worries Thane, I'm not getting defensive or anything.
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Official thread killer

Just so it is clear, I was responding to the ORIGINAL POST =)

We are talking NORMAL 5 man instance here.

So, that means, "uncrushable" is not even a word that should be mentioned. Normal, 5-man crits, are not ZOOMMGG. Additionally, the most damaging thing to us, normally, is casters anyway, and pve spells do not crit.

Last time I checked, there was not too many "Phase 2 encounters" in normal instances where 1% dodge is going to be of ANY value. So, I again affirm my original position, suneater is garbage.

Sure, I agree with you in theory, the tank should have 485+ defense rating (incidentally, that is my amount of defense for HEROICS and almost all tanking I do in SSC/TK- if I do a boss, i go up to 490, but there is a significant difference between SSC/TK and a normal 5-man instance). Is it necessary for normal instance? No, in fact, I think it is near impossible to even tank a normal 70 instance with MORE than 460 defense, IF the tank is a fresh 70? Where are you gonna get the gear of that quality when you ding 70? Sure, you can get some very nice quest greens in SMV and Netherstorm, and a good blue here and there.

Anyway, arguing about a few defense is kind of mute, anyway. We can agree to disagree: I will accept your answer, that you believe you shouldn't even get out of bed in the morning without less than 485 defense. And, you accept that my position is that it is more than possible to tank NORMAL instances with 460 defense rating (and that I probably would not encourage anything lower than that number).

We both agree 430 is insufficient.

Jesus, chill out man.
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Even if I'm AOE tanking multiple pulls in a normal 5-man wearing pure threat gear, I don't go under 480-485 defense. There's just no reason to be crittable.

Someone worrying about dodge/agility for avoidance when they're still crittable is a pretty good sign that they have no idea what they're doing.

And honestly, I don't think gearing for uncrushability (or even *towards* uncrushability) is necessary for a normal 5-man. It'll eventually happen just because your pieces all either have block or avoidance, but it's not a priority.
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Sweeney: 70 Paladin, Runetotem