Am I a masochist, or have things gone too far?

I agree with you on a lot of points, strangely I liked BC tanking because it took quite a lot of Skill / understanding of class mechanics in order to properly play a Paladin tank. You had to gear yourself in a certain way... Balancing Spell Power, and other tanking stats. You lacked a lot of the tools the other Tanks had... a lot of our threat came from Reflective damage. (Holy Shield, Ret Aura..etc)

It was rare to see a successful Paladin tank, I remember when I first was working my way up through Heroics... after I had gotten used to Tanking there was an S-Priest in Heroic UB.. that told me I was the best tank he had ever seen and how he could pull threat off other tanks easily, but I almost never let a mob loose. It was great and made me strive to excel in a role that not all people thought was meant for our Class.

I mean would I want to go back to those days after all the upgrades to our role? Definitely not... but I do see the point where it seems like almost everyone and their mother has a Pally tank alt/dual spec nowadays.

I like prot more now, more buttons to push. I actually have to think about what to use and when. In TBC I tanked, and cleansed and still had GCD to spare, now I cant find enough GCDs.

I do not like the new ret as much as old. That may seem odd but as a BE seal twisting Blood/Command was a lot of work, made me stand out as a dps and provided some burst that made me laugh. Now its more wack a mole sort thing. The new exorcism change really just took exorcism from prot/holy, I can almost ignore AoW because it procs so much.

But yes they have dumbed down the game a lot. This has happened to all the MMOs I have played, over time the make everything easier and easier. Eventually the game loses its challenge and people like me quit for sometime newer. I have hopes for the new FF MMO, I loved the first one..... way off topic.

We along with DKs are the new huntards, people make assumptions about us more than they did before wotlk. But with reduce required skill to function comes one thing I like. I stand out now way more than before, I prove that gear score, iLvl and purples dont mean jack and I have a blast doing it.

moduspwnens wrote:These kinds of feelings were bound to come out. When I first started becoming a regular here, I wondered how many people were attracted to the class because of the personality trait of wanting to be the "underdog." There's nothing wrong with that, but I wondered how much of a factor that actually was.

Well, I've remained a warrior through the last six months of being perceived as the bottom of the tanking barrel. I may not have started as the underdog, but I didn't reroll as soon as I was, like some did. I just kept tanking like I always did. So, I understand the people that say "Dammit, I rolled a paladin to tank, and that's what I'm going to do!"

I rolled a Pally tank purely because there was one good Pally Tank on the server at the time, and he was my friend. He pretty much outclasses all the other tanks we had, and since I was healing him I noticed. I remember yelling at the Warrior tanks we had back when Kara was serious business, me and the other Holy Priest would be yelling every 6 seconds "Shield Block wore off, please refresh it". Needless to say, as time went on, I slowly transitioned into a fulltime tank before BC was over, and it suits me.

Being the underdog was fun. Being a good Pally tank when there were like 2 on the server that could actually "handle" it was a nice perk, but mostly tanks tank because their personalities suit it. I know that's the case with our DK, and our good Warrior who's usually Fury now but was the tank through SSC and TK and into Hyjal/BT when I joined this guild are both the same kind of people personality wise. As far as our guild goes though, you need to be. If we weren't the kind of people who liked going fast, who liked going hard, who liked doing things right, who were aware of everyone else in the raid, who liked our DPS doing near-insane things just to challenge us, etc etc., we'd probably have quit a while back. If we ever recruit another fulltime tank, I'd feel sorry for him for the first few raids until he got used to it. And that's what (imo) should drive a tank.

I rolled a tank in BC, because a friend said paladins are nice tanks.

I can live without all the abuse we suffered during TBC.

I rolled my Paladin to be a tank from day #1. I'd played a Hunter through Classic and early BC, but my group was short of tanks for Kara and all too full of DPS, so I rerolled. I'd always liked the look of the Paladin class, and I'd heard good things about their ability to Tank in BC.

Well ok, the good things turned out to be exaggerated somewhat, but hell, I was 70 at that point and I was damned if I was gonna stop then.

Anyway, I like where Paladins are now. No more esoteric itemisation, solid survivability and amazing threat generation. I just wish I could say I enjoyed the content.

Oh my , itemisation. Somehow was quite funny to juggle with so many stats. But I am happy that we have good threat, the tank skills we missed like Thunderjudge, now Vindication , bubblewall, etc. So the stuff we missed, we´ve finally got. Al that talkabout being OP is a little bit too early. Seems we are used to the last place at the bottom.

Wha I really hated in BC was our mana. Stupid sitting around, unless you did sit for crit, would chain chug pots to keep up with the rage classes or put away or exchange equipment. I think one of my RL said something like, I know Dante is ready for pull after I heard the sound of equip being exchanged. Couldn´t and can´t live without Outfitter.

Ulushnar wrote:Anyway, I like where Paladins are now. No more esoteric itemisation, solid survivability and amazing threat generation. I just wish I could say I enjoyed the content.

Ditto and bolded for emphasis.

Karazhan and most 5 man instances had that 'awe' feeling for me in TBC, in WotLK Naxx and the instances available [with the exception of both Utgarde instances] left me feeling cold and wanting more.

Ulduar feels a little more epic but it is still a bit meh.

I wish mobs needed to be CC'ed again, so that the game wasn't just a huge AoE fest. It is just like watching a fire work display most of the time. The content is disappointing for me personally from what I have seen so far because realistically, it is too easy for everyone. When you don't have to work hard to get a reward you lose a sense of self achievement.

That is how it is for me anyway. I am hoping that the Keepers of Ulduar and the Trial convince me otherwise.

Barathorn

I really can't disagree with you more Bara old boy.

Barathorn wrote:

Ulushnar wrote:Anyway, I like where Paladins are now. No more esoteric itemisation, solid survivability and amazing threat generation. I just wish I could say I enjoyed the content.

Ditto and bolded for emphasis.

Karazhan and most 5 man instances had that 'awe' feeling for me in TBC, in WotLK Naxx and the instances available [with the exception of both Utgarde instances] left me feeling cold and wanting more.

Karazhan reminded me of Upper Blackrock Spire more than anything else. Far too long and stuffed with a lot of annoying trash. The only thing that impressed me about the BC 5-mans was their brevity. I loved that we could clear Ramparts in 20 minutes. I spent the first fortnight of BC on my Hunter helping mates through there and Blood Furnace 3-4 times a day. By the time I moved on, my Pet was tanking the place effectively!

Frankly, after spending hours wandering aimlessly around Sunken Temple or BRD, or hell trying to do a clear of both sides of Stratholme, it was a breath of fresh air and I love it.

Barathorn wrote:I wish mobs needed to be CC'ed again, so that the game wasn't just a huge AoE fest. It is just like watching a fire work display most of the time. The content is disappointing for me personally from what I have seen so far because realistically, it is too easy for everyone. When you don't have to work hard to get a reward you lose a sense of self achievement.

Right, let me explain something to you, because your experience is broadly similar to my own in this regard. There is a reason that no mobs in the 10-mans need to be CC'd, and that is the 10-mans are designed to be broadly accessible to any configuration of players that includes 2 tanks and 2-3 healers. It would suck if they made a boss that needed, say, a Warlock to beat him if your group didn't have a Warlock that night. Whilst CC helps whilst your gear level is still low, it's more fun (in my opinion) to just kill all the mobs until they're dead rather than kill them all and then go "oh right, here's one I missed earlier".

But you haven't hit the keepers yet. And both Hodir and Freya have some anti-AoE trash.

I can see why we disagree on Karazhan Ulushnar, you raided in vanilla and I didn't so perhaps I was wearing rose tinted glasses as Karzhan was my first raid?

With regard to the CC issue, it isn't just about 10 mans, it is about 5 mans as well. There is no need to CC anything, classes are almost geared around AoE attacks for the uninformed who don't realise there is more to the game than Blizzards, Hurricanes, Whirlwinds etc. I understand that for 10 mans you can't always expect to have someone who can CC.

Actually, that is rubbish. Blizzard have given more classes the ability to CC and revamped some skills such as roots so they can be used to CC in an instance. So why is it rare to need to CC something in 5 or 10 mans when most classes have the ability to do so in one form or another?

I like where Paladins are now, but I don't enjoy the content that I have seen so far as much as I did the content in TBC. Are you saying you do enjoy WotLK content Ulushnar?

/confused.com

Barathorn

Barathorn wrote:I like where Paladins are now, but I don't enjoy the content that I have seen so far as much as I did the content in TBC. Are you saying you do enjoy WotLK content Ulushnar?

Ehm yes and no. I liked the new 5-mans a lot and I loved Ulduar, but I hated the laziness and corner-cutting. Ok, I can see them wanting to get more use out of Naxx since maybe 10% of the population saw it in classic, but I don't think anyone can describe T7 raiding as an especially satisfying experience, especially at the 10-man level.

And this latest batch just feels like a desperate stopgap. They need new rewards for the new PVP season and they're cobbling together a raid out of spare parts to give the PVEers gear parity. I just feels underwhelming.

Maybe it's the server that I'm on, but I'm my guild's MT and have been tanking since right after AQ40 came out, and honestly, being a prot pally still takes a lot of skill. Yes, we have a lot of tools at our disposal that I absolutely love, but I have been in countless raids and dungeons dpsing on an alt and the prot pally tanking is a complete moron. I was in one dungeon with a prot pally that never used his avenger's shield on groups to pull. He was almost acting like a warrior tank by running up to the mob to engage them, using consecrate and whatever other spells he decided to pull out. I was embarassed for him. Myself and another person in the group even tried to tell the tank using avenger's shield to pull the mob would help the rest of us stay alive and not pull aggro, but he never listened. Good times when you get social experiment tanks like that.

Ulushnar wrote:

Barathorn wrote:I like where Paladins are now, but I don't enjoy the content that I have seen so far as much as I did the content in TBC. Are you saying you do enjoy WotLK content Ulushnar?

Ehm yes and no. I liked the new 5-mans a lot and I loved Ulduar, but I hated the laziness and corner-cutting. Ok, I can see them wanting to get more use out of Naxx since maybe 10% of the population saw it in classic, but I don't think anyone can describe T7 raiding as an especially satisfying experience, especially at the 10-man level.

And this latest batch just feels like a desperate stopgap. They need new rewards for the new PVP season and they're cobbling together a raid out of spare parts to give the PVEers gear parity. I just feels underwhelming.

This to an extent. I feel the same kind of thing, but at the same time, putting myself in the developers' shoes, I can't think of too much I'd do differently. I think we needed an easily puggable Naxx to get players back into raiding, and I'm very much a fan of Ulduar hard modes.

Lindreth wrote:Yes, we have a lot of tools at our disposal that I absolutely love, but I have been in countless raids and dungeons dpsing on an alt and the prot pally tanking is a complete moron.

Agreed. Tanks are supposed to be far easier to play today (from what I read). Their (solo-)dps is no more terrible, aggro is good. That should have attracted a lot of new players to tanking. And paladins even more if they have become OP faceroller's...

But I mt every raid since wotlk launch, 'cause We couldn't recruit any decent tank from any class. May be tanking in BC learned something that new tanks lack today I don't know. I liked to perform well with my pally tank in BC, when it was unexpected by other players, just as was said before. I admit it. I feared seeing hundreds new (paladin) tanks running every where destroying every thing and applying in my guild. The opposite occured: no new tank from any class to share raid plannings. Several DK and a few paladins applied, but they all had big problems, little knowledge, and performed really badly. I didn't see those kind of terrible applies during BC.

Nèlya wrote: Several DK and a few paladins applied, but they all had big problems, little knowledge, and performed really badly. I didn't see those kind of terrible applies during BC.

I didn't see any other Tankadins at all for 90% of BC, there was a sudden influx in the last few months. I just assumed that all the bad Tankadins got frustrated with the class and rerolled and all the semi decent or good ones got snapped up to be a guilds MH bitch.