Who remembers SWP very well?

Well, considering if they were doing progression, they probably weren't in full BiS. Looking up some of the old kill videos from the top guilds in the world doing progression SWP (SK gaming, Nihilum, etc), many of them have recount visible in the meters--one example here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPxPxEA8 ... re=related

I know it is hardly a definitive answer, but there are some actual numbers on screen. As stated above, top dps for the progression kill was around 2.5k

BM Hunter
BM Hunter
BM Hunter
Enhancement Shaman
Glaive Rogue/Fury Warrior/Destro Lock (Curse of Doom)

Feral Druid
Fury Warrior
Enhance Shaman (rotated into g1 to pop bloodlust)
Ret Paladin (JoL/Blessing of Might)/Glaive Rogue
Glaive Rogue

Shadow Priest
Healer Shaman (rotated into g1 to pop bloodlust)
Fire Mage
Destro Lock (Curse of Recklessness)
Destro Lock (Curse of Elements)

Warrior Tank (Sunders)
Paladin Tank (JoW/Blessing of Salv)
Healer Druid
Healer Paladin (Blessing of Kings)
Healer Priest

Healer Shaman (rotated into g1 to pop bloodlust)
Survival Hunter
Whatever Stepchild DPS/Ret Paladin (JoL/Blessing of Might)
Whatever Stepchild DPS
Whatever Stepchild DPS

Every single person in the raid except tanks would be leatherworking for drums.

A good glaive rogue could break 3k DPS even before SWP, wearing only BT gear. From what I remember in Premonition they were hitting that before SW even came out. Most pure DPS were in the mid 2.0-2.5k ish range.

Talking about what DPS a class "could" pull back in those days is a very subjective thing, however. As should be apparent from above, high numbers were dependent on having a large quantity of the raid being essentially "support" DPS, taking a personal sacrifice to their own dps in exchange for higher rDPS, not to mention having all kinds of random stuff in the raid like ret paladins and surv hunter and a warrior tank etc.
Like in order to set a Warlock parse you needed to have at least TWO additional warlocks in the raid as well to put up the two rDPS increasing curses, allowing you to Curse of Doom.
If tank death was a serious concern (progression/Brutallus) you needed one of the hunters (meaning the Survival one) to gimp himself further by using the lower DPS owl pet whose screech counteracted the increased Attack Power Curse of Recklessness granted the boss, instead of the higher DPS pet (The winged snake thing that zapped lightning).

Also don't forget scrolls in addition to drums and potions. Real men used scrolls of strength and agility on every physical dps. AND Pets.

Both tanks would also have Nightfall axe which they would immediately equip whenever they were not tanking and spam hamstring on the boss to get procs.

Brekkie wrote:
Every single person in the raid except tanks would be leatherworking for drums.

CASUAL! In my guild, even 2 out of 3 tanks were LW

Also, I believe scorpids had the lead on damage done for a bit due to some poison bug, confirm?

Yeah, if you didn't teach the scorpid pet the final rank of poison (which did more damage but for some reason had a chance of the stack falling off because it had a longer cooldown?) you could pop a ton of AP self-buffs and a potion and stuff right as you started attacking and the heightened Attack Power would count towards that first application of poison.
Then, each time poison was reapplied by the pet, it didn't actually recalculate damage based on your current AP, it would carry forward the AP from the original application, allowing you to effectively "roll" an inflated damage poison stack.

They fixed this bug before SWP came out, however. By SWP the best pet was the lightning-winged-snake-thing because the lightning attack scaled well with AP. As long as you had the one aforementioned Owl to counteract Recklessness.

As for tanks, there were better professions for a tank to have then leatherworking. Jewelcrafting/Blacksmithing was probably best. And generally there was little need for drums in any group the tank would conceivably be put in.

Wind Serpents yeah. They were the highest DPS Hunter pet.
I thought the CoReck thing could also get countered with 2/5 Imp Demo Roar (or 4/5) or something? Vague memories regarding that.

The raid leader in the other raiding guild on our server got some forum drama railed at him cause he'd pop himself with 3 Shadow Priests and be Arcane while the other casters (like, you know, Locks) were like "F U".

Enh Shaman had to totem-twist to be useful to the raid.

I thought the CoReck thing could also get countered with 2/5 Imp Demo Roar (or 4/5) or something? Vague memories regarding that

I believe you are correct, though we always used an owl. The reason being that it allowed the bear and warrior tanks to spend those two talent points elsewhere (warriors, for example, could get extremely helpful extra threat gen with every spare point you allowed them to spend). Additionally, it would be one less debuff for the tank to have to manage, again increasing threat gen and dps. You could also were assured that the owl would always be apply it's debuff to the DPS target, the one with curse of recklessness on it, which was helpful when you might have the warrior or druid tank tanking something off on the other side of the room.

P.S. this thread made me nostalgia HARDCORE and go watch all my favorite old kill videos.

Got bored and went digging, can't find much of our old stuff, but here is our first or second Brutallus kill (I think it was first): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24JXDnxJrjg

The meter is a bit hard to read in the youtube version, maybe it'll eventually get around to offering a 1080p version since the uploaded resolution is 1600x1200, but here's a screencap: http://i.imgur.com/9fshK.jpg of the end, the other BM hunter and I end at 2772 and 2882 dps respectively. This was kind of gimp since we didn't have an enhancement shaman in our group, and had a Survival Hunter in our group instead of another BM hunter. Also, obviously in very little SWP gear, you can see us wearing badge xbows and mostly BT gear in the screenshot. IIRC I got my T6 belt that kill. The rogue just below us at 2452 only had an off-hand glaive, so she'd likely have been around 2800 too with both glaives.

The breakdown could vary quite a lot depending on the boss though. Brut was a low-movement tank and spank with 100% melee/pet uptime, Felmyst was similar but had airphases with low melee/pet dps and a bit of AoE from the casters, Twins was lowmovement but random people got conflagged and threat could be an issue, Muru was a clusterfuck with some cleaving and mages spellstealing a buff and warlocks aoeing and enslaving mobs, KJ was a bit of clusterfuck with the drakes.

Here are some random meters from other kills:

Felmyst - our mage usually got high on this, presumably from AoEing skellies and air phase dps - mage and lock at 2.5kdps


Eredar Twins - good for hunters again, although I think I was actually threatcapped on that kill with everything else going right


Muru/Entropius - looking at the many, many low % wipe screenshots of this one the only commonality seems to be warlocks on top. We never had a particularly stable kill of it, lots of people always died in p2, at least until the 30% nerf made it the easiest fight in the zone. Warlock at 3.2k dps


Post 3.0 Brutallus - trying out shiny new Wrath talents at level 70


We weren't a particulaly good guild and people mostly stopped potting and stuff once a fight became farm, so I expect the meters for really good guilds were a fair bit higher, but the distribution of classes should have stayed fairly similar, with the exception of glaive rogues being higher than our non-glaive rogues and thori'dal hunters being higher than our non-thori'dal hunters.

most guilds i dont believe used a ret pally they used a prot pally to put up the 3percent buff, it was shallow enough in the tree to grab.

SK Gaming Vs Brutallus DPS race

Kill time was 4:09, a new record

Was before 3.0

You also needed three paladins for capped blessings however, so unless you drop non-paladin healer for a second holy paladin, you need to take a ret.

Brekkie wrote:You also needed three paladins for capped blessings however, so unless you drop non-paladin healer for a second holy paladin, you need to take a ret.

A lot of guilds used to go outside to grab blessings on someone that wasn't in the active raid as I recall back then, so not as much an issue as it seems.

Brekkie wrote:
As for tanks, there were better professions for a tank to have then leatherworking. Jewelcrafting/Blacksmithing was probably best. And generally there was little need for drums in any group the tank would conceivably be put in.

Well in our guild the tank group was generally hunter hunter feral prot war prot pala, the 2 hunters and the feral were LW, i rolled LW as well at that time to give full uptime for drums for huntards happiness.

The main problem i remember about having a Paladin tank was that with 40/21 my threat was so good, that out top dps (the mage/lock/rogue/war that could get over 2500) always wanted me to tank so they could make shiney numbers. Our prot warrior was good at threat but not exceptional, could come nowhere close to my 700 DPS (which was, a stupidly high amount of threat)

Wasn't the important buff that Rets bought Improved Sanctity Aura, which Prot couldn't get? Prot could get Sanctity Aura for the 10% Holy damage going 0/40/21, but the Improved Buff which was like 2 or 3% damage to everyone affected by the Aura was Ret only.

Then in Wrath that got consolidated into Sanctified Retribution as a 1-pointer, and then in Cat that got folded into Communion.

Prot and Ret could bring Improved Judgment of the Crusader, which was 3% crit.

Darielle wrote:The joys of being a Shadow Priest and capping out at like 1.7k

And adding 15% to the damage of the five warlocks...

I used to switch between off-spec ret and prot. My DPS was average (ret wasn't hard to play and my gear was reasonable), but adding 3% crit to the entire raid and something else (forget what) to my DPS group made up for it.

Geaux wrote:I am in an arguement with a guild mate who is making the claim that: She has seen screenshots of her ex boy friend at level 70 doing progression in SWP and pulling over 4k DPS on his mage.

lythac wrote:SK Gaming Vs Brutallus DPS race

Kill time was 4:09, a new record

Was before 3.0

Refuted.

At 4k, her ex-BF would have been doing 25% more DPS than the best hunter in the #1 guild during their world-record attempt as the worst non-support-class DPS in-game.