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Maintankadin

WOWinsidier promoting uneducated views?

Goodheart
Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:45 pm
On the frontpage the post begins with:
AlexZiebart
Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:48 pm
Hey guys, Alex here, the author of the Hybrid Theory column. I have a follow up in the works to address some of your concerns, and it'll carry a little more detail than what I'll have here.

Goodheart, you're sort of right. Sort of. I added a little bit of cynical flair to some of my points, just for kicks. Not to get anybody riled up, but because it's more interesting that way. For example, my point on Balance Druids as tanks. It's a fun thing to do, but not really raid viable. I said it in a cynical, downer way. The Moonkin tanks may not have liked it, but I think some people got a kick out of it.

I think the largest issue with how I described Protection Paladins was in how I put my words together, how I phrased things. My sardonic lead-in pushed things off of the mark, and Protection Paladins probably did not appreciate that. I'll toss a little something extra up on WoW Insider to explain my stance.

You guys are completely right in the fact that I missed some of the Protection Paladin details, but I stand by that Protection Warriors and Feral Druids are most likely to be the main tanks. I'll rephrase how I stated it in my follow up, because I believe it comes across more hateful than I intended it. I think I missed some of the details because I play a Protection Paladin. This is possibly a fault of mine, that I'm so used to doing things that they slip my mind when someone says, "Hey, how do you paladin?"

My writing style for this particular column posting was probably more problematic than anything, it seems. However, I did miss some things, so why don't we handle that in a civil manner. What, precisely, did I miss that is exclusive to Protection Paladins? I'll even go back to my column from Saturday and edit it in, and give you guys a nod for the fact checking if you want. I can't promise I'm going to include absolutely everything, because the list could get pretty long if you include all of the little, minor things- I'm not the Paladin columnist, which I'm sure you all appreciate. Wink

Additionally, if you want to take a look at my Prot Paladin alt's Armory(pre/early-T5 equivalent), it's right here: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Cenarion+Circle&n=Leothir

I would give you the Armory of the Protection Paladin that raids with my raid alliance, but I don't think he would appreciate that very much.

Feel free to tear me apart, but a few notes: If I have my expertise neck on, it drops me below being uncrittable, but I currently only wear it on trash mobs and the like that I'm sure won't kill me. Otherwise, I wear the Barbed Choker of Discipline, which brings me to 490 on the dot. Once I boost my defense somewhere else, I'm going to try working the Hit/Expertise into my primary tanking set.

I don't have Blessing of Kings because I'm generally in a situation where there's only one paladin, so Might/Salv/Wisdom on the party/raid and Sanc on myself is what's most often needed. I respec for Kings when I'm needed in a 25-man setting.

My other glaring weak point is my shoulders, which are still D3. I've been grinding Sethekk, Karazhan and the first chest in ZA as often as possible to get either Dimentia, Abrahmis or Stone Resolve, but random loot is not being kind to me.

Trust me, guys, playing a Protection Paladin is one of the funnest things in WoW for me, and I apologize for coming across as a hater. I won't step back from my position entirely, but I probably phrased things in a more extreme manner than I intended, and I apologize for that.
Reiyuka
Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:53 pm
Hey, it's great that you came here to post, I really appreciate seeing it.

As prot, I'm sure you feel the remnants of the marginalizing attitude leftover from pre-BC days, there's still the odd person who doesn't know what we can do. It's really no wonder some of us still get pretty defensive.

As to your own paladin - have some more faith in yourself! There's nothing stopping you from being an amazing tank, but you. Don't let people tell you you're bad, because you're not.

In my guild, prot paladins are by far the most desirable tanks. We've earned our spots through hard work and lots of reading, and we know our stuff.

Tanking is all about the person playing it, these days. Smile

And don't sell yourself short! If you feel underutilized, work harder and make people accept it.
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NarfJones
Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:25 pm
I can really appreciate sardonic writing. It's one of my favorite types. The issue is that you don't want your comments to come off as hostile. As far as Main Tanking goes, there are benefits and drawbacks to every class. You can say that a warrior is better because they mitigate more damage, but not mentioning that they take more crushing blows than a Paladin skews the statement.

The problem with the article is that it's puts people in places they don't want to be, and makes them think that is where they belong all the time. The only way you can say that one class is more viable than another is to equate the skill levels of the people playing those classes. The only true way, really, would be to put them both at the top of the game. The assumed finish to the statement "a warrior is better for Jan'Ali in Zul'aman because he can shield wall through the enrage" is "providing the warrior use shield wall at the proper time." You don't say those things(and aren't expected to), but it comes to the fact that no player is on exactly the same skill level. Not to mention every encounter is situational. Hell, even the same encounter can play out differently from week to week.

There are exceptions. Moonkin tanking is not viable for progression raiding. The balance between what makes it work and the difficulties they have to overcome to achieve it are too imbalanced. The reason it is done at all, is that it's simply, possible.

The extremes would be the Reliquary of Souls(phase 2) and Garr. Granted they are different tier raid bosses but look at it logically. We can't tank RoS Phase 2. Why doesn't matter, just that we cannot. We can, however, solo a raid boss. A raid boss, moreover, that used to require 40 people to kill.

It's all about perception. Writing and playing. I apologize for the douchebag remark as I can see now that what I was reading wasn't necessarily what you were trying to say, but in future, I recommend that you choose a little more clarification and explanation over perceived wittiness to please your audience.
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Tanking is was made to do
enbee
Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:13 am
I got a pre 2.3 progression tanking kill on archimonde, not illidan though (was post 2.3), and not server first, but at least it's something!
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LoL, a paladin tank!
iliya
Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:23 am
I can see what you're trying to say, Alex, but when you say this:

"Sorry to break your hearts, but don't expect to be main tanking much. You might be the guy tanking the less important mobs in a boss encounter, but you will probably not be the guy tanking Vashj, Kael'thas or Illidan. It's possible, I guess, but probably won't happen. Make sure you collect some healing gear for those encounters in which there's nothing for you to tank."

Sardonic or not, it sounds like you're discouraging paladins from even trying to tank in the first place and that makes a lot of us rather unhappy.

Yes, we know your stance and you're entitled to it, however, some of us don't agree and want to MT and those that do MT find the ways to do it.

Also, I suggest you take those points of out guardian's favor and stoicism and place them into improved judgment, that last point in anticipation, and Kings. You don't need those two talents to tank as much as people think they do.
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Afraithe
Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:02 am
What are u ppl on about? The article looks ok to me.

He says it's possible that we could tank Illidan etc, but not likely. Comeon... how many prot palas have MT Illidan compared to Warriors?

Edit: Let me put the question this way, how many Prot palas have progression MT Illidan and not been raid leader or guild master? Wink
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Parnell
Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:03 am
Alex, while you're at it, could you tell Adam Holisky to stop trolling in the comment section:

AlexZiebart
Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:24 am
I think Adam was diving headfirst into drama to prepare himself for tomorrow's event on the TTR, in which we get stomped into the ground by every single person attending the thing. Wink You need to gird yourself for that sort of thing, y'know!
Ulushnar
Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:57 am
This phrase bothers me: