WOWinsidier promoting uneducated views?

You guys absolutely have every right to toss up some criticism, and that's why I'm here. If I didn't want to fix the problems, I would be chuckling at all of the hatemail in my inbox instead of registering on your forums and asking for feedback.

Ulushnar: Unfortunately, no, my Protection Paladin has not seen much of the 25-man raids until just recently when I've begun helping a 2nd raid group break into TK/SSC. My main is my Shadow Priest*, but like I said, my raid does have a Protection Paladin in it. We brought him on board when one of our Feral Druids decided raiding wasn't his thing.

* http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Cenarion+Circle&n=Fellina

I have my follow up slated to go live on WoW Insider around 1 pm this afternoon(sunday), but it may shift a bit depending on scheduling, all depends. Regardless, tomorrow, it'll be there. Hopefully it'll be more acceptable.

I'll stick to reading world of raids where they try and keep a distinction between useful information and subjective bollocks.

Honestly, though I can't see why you were trying to perpetuate pre-TBC notions of a spec you play yourself.
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Beware the advice of successful people. They do not seek company.

I used to read Wowinsider and sometimes listen to their podcast but the constant digs at protection and retribution paladins just got old. I've had to deal with enough prejudice in-game, it's sad that people who should be a bit more informed reel it off in guides like they are an authority thus aggravating the problem.

It's good that you are trying to make peace and learn Alex but you should have considered your words a lot better. I've tanked Vashj, Kael (better than our warrior MT because I don't die to flamestrikes ) and we'll see when we get to Illidan. Last I checked a druid can't MT two of those.
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You did not at all consider the strengths of the paladin class when it comes to main tanking anything.


What is sad is you posted this AFTER 2.3.

Also swipes innate threat was removed it is no longer the power threat tool it once was.

Secondly we know atleast 1 paladin called lore who did tank the flames on his guilds illidan kill and the flames are largely considered the hardest part of the encounter to tank! pre 2.3.

The main tank viability of the paladin class is there, whether guilds use it as a main tank depends on alot of variables.

For one if my guild didn't have a BT geared warrior I would have the highest health and armor. I still have 1000 more armor than the warrior tank we use which about makes me even due to defensive stance vs imp RF.

I tanked supremus (doesn't crush) and kael. On supremus ardent defender is a god send, regularly I saw hits of 3-4k vs 5-7k. Its a life saver with no cooldown and that was with 20k health. Which gave time for healers to position. Now shield wall and last stand are great abilities but honest to god a warrior would kill for ardent defender. In a raid situation shit happens its murphy's law. Would ardent defender save you on a mob that hits for 8k? maybe would shield walling work if you were on GCD? nope.

You can't compare a paladin tank to a holy paladin. They are 2 different things. I'd like to see a holy paladin tank 3 abominations in t5 level gear.

We tried a holy paladin on morogrims murlocs in a guild i was in, full s3. he died in about 5 seconds. Where as I have tanked murlocs wave after wave no problems surviving.

Vashj is a girl ive even tanked her without grounding totems which significantly nerf her dps.
Kael is a girl ive tanked him without spell warding :\ we had the warrior go on MC duty rather. clean kill, next week we moved me to phoenix and wiped for 2 nights due to a new tank on kael.

Remember tanking is player dependant NOT class dependant. A wariror tank who doesn't move out of an AoE that hits for 50k is useless, a warrior tank who doesn't loot the phaseshift bulwark is useless...I can't wait to wipe because he didn't shield block shear (well that is if a i join again thats another story).

While it's true a warrior is a better choice on some encounters id rather tank things like anetheron who managed to hit 3 times in the space of 6 seconds and each time the last hit was a crushing. Warrior shield block is in truth not stable on most bosses because most bosses DO hit too fast. You forgot to compare paladin tanks vs tanks rather than vs paladins.

Edit: On my realm we have 10 guilds that have cleared BT. Of the top 4 guilds 3 of them currently have a paladin tank.
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To face death and glory with an equal smile

Hi Alex, I'm actually really glad to see you posting here. This gives us a chance to discuss some of the points you've bought up.

I think there's enough comments and information in the replies on this topic that that I don't need to dive into the talent tree as well as the nitty-gritties (and embarass myself talking theorycraft), the rest board have done a good job on that already.

Prot Paladins, like druids and warriors, has different strength and weakness dealing with each boss. You can see the hard work done by members of this board, analyzing the boss in game in regards to Prot Pally: Cordelia's Raid level boss guide http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintankadin/viewtopic.php?t=3619. The information is outdated because the original thread creator is gone, but you can fill in the blankets on rest of the stuff by going into the corresponding forums (Mt. Hyjal, Black Temple). Shear done by Illidan is more reliably avoided using holy shield.

Dealing with BT from Wordie's post on theoryspot.com: "

Also i would like to remind you how Paladins can be considered superior tanks for the following fights of Black Temple.
1) Supremus (ranged pickup after threat reset)
2) Illidari Council -> Rogue. Since we can taunt him if he goes spell immune, avenger shield him if he goes melee immune.
3) RoS p3 (and p1 by some degrees) are more effectively tanked by Paladins as well. The damage taken from Soul Scream is trivial compared to the potential damage burst on warrior in case of 2 unavoided hits, and threat generation scales way better than warrior/druid's one with the Aura.
4) Shade of Akama, capable of AoEtanking the groups of 3 adds without too much issue.
5) Bloodboil, a paladin in the tanking squad for him can provide a additional BoP for a tank that goes too much on with aggro, as well as bubble himself in case of getting too many debuffs.

And about Illidan, paladins can tank both the boss himself or the flames, according to how the guild prefer. By tanking the boss, you give up some mitigation and emergency buttons for snap threat after phase transitions and a more reliable way to avoid Shear. By tanking the flames, he can bubble out of the Dark Barrage in case he happens to get one, avoiding a very potential wipe."

There are many, many guilds that have down Illidan that uses a Paladin as main tank. Off the top of my head, <Lunacy> on Proudmore, <Primals> on Ravenholdt, as well as many of the MTs that prawls this forum.

So if a protection paladin has the same capabilities as other tanks, why do people still have the idea that Paladins cannot be main tanks? The only thing I could come up with was: prejudice. The stereotype have been ingrain into people's minds, and I believe this is what is so frustrating to the people here. Each and every one of the protection paladins I know works hard to get rid of this prejudice. That's why people are frustrated when they see a reputable blog like WOWinsider not understanding the stigma we've been fighting.

I hope this helps.

I can't speak for the 25-man content, but for Karazhan, ZA and Heroics, my paladin has been a very viable tank. A protection paladin's strengths really shine in KZ and Heroics, consequently farming badges of justice is a breeze. 1 healer, 1 prot pally, 3 ae dps and you're set. For casual guilds, a prot pally makes an excellent tank.
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Last seen wearing...

It comes off condesending towards Prot Paladins imo. The author pretty much minimizes or ignores many of our strengths as many have pointed out.

There are many pros and cons to all 3 tank classes but to try and rank them in with a warrior at the top followed by a druid and then a paladin seems totally incorect. It may have been true in the past, but at this point I think Blizzard has really tried to equalize the tanking classes and has done a decent job so far. Personally, I see all 3 classes as viable MTs, but they also bring individual benifits.
It doesn't seem like the author agrees.

I do agree with picking up healing gear that going to be DE'd... and Ret gear...

It just makes me really sad that you could write all that horribly condescending crap having a protection paladin yourself.
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