Warlords of Draenor

what i just comment is that when raid are too fast available, no one care about leveling & quest & lore & etc... it is just a rush

i wouln't mind if Bliz's ressource were 1st allocated to everything except raid, then raid
rather than wait everthing ready later at same time

Winkle wrote:On the topic of flying: I'm excited about the no fly until 6.1, after reading Blizzards vision in that blue post the other day i'm not sure how people can't be.

I play tanks and a healer. If everywhere I go I have to kill shit to get things done, my interest in going to these places decreases drastically -- I've spent maybe four or five hours actively doing things on the Timeless Isle because that place has so little to do other than killkillkillkillkill afk wait for rarespawn.

So I can see why people aren't excited about nofly. It'll be nice to bring some sense of adventure back to the world, but if it all revolves around going places and killing things, I'll probably shelve a few more characters.

oldboyz wrote:what i just comment is that when raid are too fast available, no one care about leveling & quest & lore & etc... it is just a rush

Some people do really like questing, but a quest is something you do once per character -- any more than that and people start hating them (hello Golden Lotus). The reality of the game is that people will do raids many times before they get sick and tired, but their patience to do quests many times wears thin very quickly.

It will be interesting to see how much crying there is over "oh god I want random epic reward from this quest but I didn't get it blzz why you ruining my fun."

fuzzygeek wrote:It will be interesting to see how much crying there is over "oh god I want random epic reward from this quest but I didn't get it blzz why you ruining my fun."

Which will be silly because if I had to guess it'll be like the epics from the Pandaren Rares, not that amazing and replaced by gear from dungeons and even later quest zones.

A lot of players simply choose not to do things in game and when they make that choice, they should not be rewarded. At the start of MoP, some of the best initial items/slots you could get came from doing the quest chains, and getting your character revered/exalted with the various factions. The problem with that was expecting players with alts to do the daily rep grinds over and over. I have 7 lvl 90's and only 1 did everything. The other 6 took full advantage of Timeless Ilse and are 515 to 551 itl.

Some have posted here they never did Timeless Isle and that's of course your choice not to do so, but honestly I find it odd you didn't take advantage of it to gear a dps spec. I get some of you don't enjoy playing dps specs, but both tank & healers were always in demand for groups on the island.

This game revolves around killing mobs. Every class has a DPS spec, and to not gear that dps spec is IMO, selfish & incredibly lazy. You may only tank or heal on your character, but if your telling me you never dps on those characters your admitting to us all that you don't really play that character fully.

WoD is going to offer far more opportunity to help gear your character for the initial 2 raids by finding chests, killing mobs, and rares, pretty much where ever you may happen to be in the new zone. The intent of that is to make it so they don't have to force players to do repetitive dailies, and to spread players throughout the entire zone so everyone won't be after the same targets. The no flying thing will encourage players to break the bad habit of sitting in a Capitol City doing nothing til raid time, and expecting a summon. Some here have already said they will just run instances and that's your choice of course. I personally will be out in the world killing anything I can, AND doing instances.

Getting to 100 should not take that long for most players who play a reasonable amount of time. Remember they're removing all the achievements for getting to level 100 first on various classes.

As far as raiding, we have no idea when the new raids will be available yet. If they do it like past xpac's players will be able to do the 1st raid as soon as they're lvl 100. So who knows, Blizzard has the power to set a the new raids release dates, and they may use various new methods to unlock the 2 new raids. With a 6 boss starting raid, and a 10 boss raid, they may tell us ya need to clear both to unlock Mythic. Until we know what raid drops what, it may make sense to require all 16 bosses killed before unlocking Mythic difficulty.

Clearly Blizzard is going to surprise us all with some new ideas, and imo, that's a good thing.

Qeeze wrote:This game revolves around killing mobs. Every class has a DPS spec, and to not gear that dps spec is IMO, selfish & incredibly lazy.

Why, pray tell, is this selfish and lazy? I'd love to hear your train of thought on that.

Clearly Blizzard is going to surprise us all with some new ideas, and imo, that's a good thing.

Some new ideas that don't revolve around indiscriminate killing would be interesting. e.g., things to tank or heal out in the world -- promoting gameplay involving those specs that are in high demand might actually get people to play these roles more, or discover a facet they enjoy that they may not have otherwise run into.

Any thoughts and/or knowledge on whether we'll see Paladin being unlocked for new Horde races?

Era wrote:Any thoughts and/or knowledge on whether we'll see Paladin being unlocked for new Horde races?

Current likelyhood is somewhere "No", "Fuck no", and "Blizzard feeds on your pain".

alliance got an extra option for shamans in MoP...

The thing is, lore-wise none of the horde races would make sense to have Paladins as none of them got anything to do with the Light.

Klaudandus wrote:alliance got an extra option for shamans in MoP...

technically so did horde

bldavis wrote:

Klaudandus wrote:alliance got an extra option for shamans in MoP...

technically so did horde

They coulda have made pandarens paladins too and keep it balanced.

The problem is that many races in the horde have access to shamans and ally only had two, now they got 3. Horde still only has 2 races that can be paladins

oldboyz wrote:what i just comment is that when raid are too fast available, no one care about leveling & quest & lore & etc... it is just a rush

I think the MoP system of having a week or two delay before raids open up is more than sufficient. Even if you took your time and read all the quest text, it didn't take two weeks to level.

If it takes a player 3 months to go from 90 to 100, then I'm not sure how they would be capable of any serious max-level raiding. Either their DPS is so terrible that it takes them 3 months to do what others do in a few days, or they have so little time to play that they wouldn't be able to put the 8+ hours a week in that serious raiding requires.

Worldie wrote:The thing is, lore-wise none of the horde races would make sense to have Paladins as none of them got anything to do with the Light.

Undead. They've *been* to the light at the end of the tunnel.

Half kidding.

Also I thought the last time this conversation came up there was discussion about how the source of paladins power varied by race -- what the Alliance worship is not the same as what powers the belfs, and the Sunwalkers have their own thing going too. Cleaving too tightly to "Light as the One True Source" may not be strictly necessary.

Although in my head there's a divide between paladins and shamen, and any race that could be one shouldn't be able to be the other. Shaman goblins still don't make sense in my head either, but there they are.

The thing is, while the Sunwalkers take the strength from the Sun, and the Blood Knight took it out of a Naaru and I have no clue where they take it now, no other race has anything similar to refer to.

Worldie wrote:The thing is, while the Sunwalkers take the strength from the Sun, and the Blood Knight took it out of a Naaru and I have no clue where they take it now, no other race has anything similar to refer to.

iirc, they get it from the light now similar to alliance paladins

bldavis wrote:

Worldie wrote:The thing is, while the Sunwalkers take the strength from the Sun, and the Blood Knight took it out of a Naaru and I have no clue where they take it now, no other race has anything similar to refer to.

iirc, they get it from the light now similar to alliance paladins

Insert the almost porn reference from lady Liandry at the sunwell

My current headcanon is that they use a specialized formed of Light that is the latent power of Mu'ru, channeled via the Sunwell, either by forcing it out Blood Knight style, or pleading it out as a more classic paladin would. Second headcanon is that Blood Knights on both ends of the fence are butting heads on the matter ever since BC ended. Third headcanon is that all pre-Sunwell Blood Knights still hold a fragment of Mu'ru inside themselves, which grants them odd sensations of light-headedness and elation when they use the Light or perform or witness a generaly Good action.

But we never got much in explanations as to how they do it now - there's a couple references to the Light being used, and to the Blood Knights STILL suffering derision and fear from the greater Blood Elven populace, but that's about it.

Worldie wrote:The thing is, while the Sunwalkers take the strength from the Sun, and the Blood Knight took it out of a Naaru and I have no clue where they take it now, no other race has anything similar to refer to.

Sure, but neither do they have anything that precludes them from finding something new. I personally think undead make the most sense -- talk about unrelenting zeal and fervor of a splinter group seeking redemption.

We know that Undeads can't be paladins because the Light would literally burn them apart. Undead non-shadow priests are similar to Draenei shadow priests, just at the very limit of the lore.

Worldie wrote:We know that Undeads can't be paladins because the Light would literally burn them apart. Undead non-shadow priests are similar to Draenei shadow priests, just at the very limit of the lore.

What's the justification for holy priest undead? (My very first character!) I don't know what you mean by "limit of the lore". What's the source of this power, and why would Dranei SPs also be constrained?

Perhaps it could be a condition of their pact that the "Light" doesn't blast them to pieces like a vampire biting Superman. Or their power derives from another source entirely -- fueled by sheer mental focus and discipline seeking a kind of righteousness. It's not exactly difficult to retcon this stuff in.

Worldie wrote:We know that Undeads can't be paladins because the Light would literally burn them apart. Undead non-shadow priests are similar to Draenei shadow priests, just at the very limit of the lore.

Sir zeliek would like to have a word with you.

Draenei can't even think about using shadow magic according to Draenei lore.

Regarding undeads, their holy priests feel huge pain everytime they channel holy magic, it also makes them partially feel alive again, and they partially regain their senses, even smelling their own rotting flesh.

Now imagine a Paladin that's constantly feeling the Light passing through him, not just channeling it. Would be a huge pain.

The only known Undead Paladin is Sir Zeliek, who only remained a Paladin in undeath because he was forced to by the Lich King, and it's clear he can't even control his actions as he yells at the players to run away and not be slaughtered when passing through Naxxramas. His whole undeath must have been something like an agonizing pain, twice, both in the mind and in his body.

I'm pretty sure that at this point, when it comes to class/race lore, Blizzard can retcon it any way they want. They've got good enough storywriters to make it feel, if not right, at least good enough. It's not an issue anyone's going to make too big a fuss over.

Pretty sure few of us saw Tauren paladins coming, but it worked out all right enough. I'm sure they can throw in some enlightened trolls, zeal'd up orcs or martyred undeads without anyone loosing their minds over it. Well, at least not permanently.

So I'm not as much interested in a "believable lore" perspective, as much as a rational argument for or against adding another race for us. Just please, Light let it be one of the three I mentioned above, and not Panda or Goblin (personal preference).

Worldie wrote:Draenei can't even think about using shadow magic according to Draenei lore.

Regarding undeads, their holy priests feel huge pain everytime they channel holy magic, it also makes them partially feel alive again, and they partially regain their senses, even smelling their own rotting flesh.

Now imagine a Paladin that's constantly feeling the Light passing through him, not just channeling it. Would be a huge pain.

And yet, here we have Dranei shadow priests by the score. Hundreds, nay, thousands, tens of thousands I would wager! Same with holy undead priests. I'm not conversant with the Deep Lore, but it's interesting that they'd build something into the lore that they have to hand wave for game mechanics.

If channeling the light *hurt* the undead paladin every time they did it, it would just add to their badassery and lore, in my opinion.

This is how devoted I am, though it burn my blood and sear my soul. You think you loved the Light, Uther? Your faith is a small, simple thing. My every prayer wracks my body, my every breath bubbles with agony. And yet, I Believe.

Your conviction is cheap, Human.

fuzzygeek wrote:If channeling the light *hurt* the undead paladin every time they did it, it would just add to their badassery and lore, in my opinion.

This is how devoted I am, though it burn my blood and sear my soul. You think you loved the Light, Uther? Your faith is a small, simple thing. My every prayer wracks my body, my every breath bubbles with agony. And yet, I Believe.

Your conviction is cheap, Human.

That's good! I like it! Now do one for trolls and orcs too!