[Blizzcon] Defense is Gone

I'm guessing that the stat changes are meant to be closer to what stats on items were in Wc3

strength gave hp
agi gave armor and haste
int gave mana and mana regen

and, depending on the class, one of those stats would increase damage by x

I'm alright with Defense being gone. There's still Hit, Crit, Str, Sta, Haste, Expertise, Dodge, Parry, Block, and whatever they're doing with ArP that they can stick on our gear. ...Though isn't this a direct nerf to avoidance? We get at least 5% miss chance from Defense that isn't currently able to be made up anywhere else. I guess "we'll see" when they're done. =)

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:I'm alright with Defense being gone. There's still Hit, Crit, Str, Sta, Haste, Expertise, Dodge, Parry, Block, and whatever they're doing with ArP that they can stick on our gear. ...Though isn't this a direct nerf to avoidance? We get at least 5% miss chance from Defense that isn't currently able to be made up anywhere else. I guess "we'll see" when they're done. =)

They haven't said they're getting read of the Defense stat, just the defense rating on gear, so we may see a talent or something that gives it to us (ie, "Raises your Defense by 140" rather than "Lowers chance to get crit").

I'm happy I can stop fiddling with numbers and get back to playing the game, though. Keeping in mind all these conversions, systems, and algorithms is rather frustrating at times.

They could make the casts cheaper and insert a mana regen mechanic similar to retribution or enhancement into the holy tree. Or use stamina instead of intellect for mana calculation. Use AP for spellpower.

Perhaps the old mechanics of illumination with 100% free cast would work together with cheaper casts. Would also keep holy out of the other trees for arena if their manareg is deep in the tree.

The changes to stats and talent trees are going to be massive enough that it isn't even worth being concerned about at all at this point. It's going to be a very different game, and some classes will be hurting in the beginning, and some will be OP, and we'll have waves of buffs and nerfs.

I do like the simplification of stats. I'm glad that ret pallys won't be trying to wear 60% mail and leather.

But we'll just have to wait 9 months or more until this hits the PTR and see how it goes.

The benefit of reducing how many stats on gear is that hopefully new progression gear will remain the best gear to attain. Having to hold on to a piece because of its perfect itemization will most likely be a thing of the past.

Other than that...meh. Not sure how I feel. I dont hate it, but I dont love it either.

Vindicated wrote:

Sabindeus wrote:Sort of disappointed that they haven't said what they're going to do about Spell Power (or I guess it's intellect now!) Plate for Paladin Healers. shit needs to go.

All they need to do is take the formula they are going to use to make int>spellpower and put that into effect for strength for paladins instead. make str=15 mana like int is now, and bam. all hte plate dps gear you would use as ret would work for a holy. Forge the stam into spirit, and there you go. stam, str, and crit rating, then some spirit, and you have a working way to remove the bad int plate.

They explicitly said yesterday that they don't want to do that. They think it's silly. And I agree.

However I see the problem as simple to solve in my own way. Make holy paladins wear spell power mail. Put a +armor talent deep in the holy tree, or merely give paladins a passive mastery bonus for armor as they put talents into the holy tree. Voila, holy paladins can now share gear with resto shamans, with absolutely no downside.

TzumaNew wrote:The benefit of reducing how many stats on gear is that hopefully new progression gear will remain the best gear to attain. Having to hold on to a piece because of its perfect itemization will most likely be a thing of the past.

Other than that...meh. Not sure how I feel. I dont hate it, but I dont love it either.

I liked that part of gearing. One thing I liked about EverQuest was how, at any given level, there were a half dozen or a dozen pieces to choose from, each with a different combination of stats, each dropping from very different available content.

I don't like that Blizzard designs basically two pieces of gear for each slot at each level, three if we're lucky. With the streamlining that's down to one. All the flexibility that they like claim they want to give us in talents and paths is fine, but it's countered if they take it all away in gear selection.

Digren wrote:

TzumaNew wrote:The benefit of reducing how many stats on gear is that hopefully new progression gear will remain the best gear to attain. Having to hold on to a piece because of its perfect itemization will most likely be a thing of the past.

Other than that...meh. Not sure how I feel. I dont hate it, but I dont love it either.

I liked that part of gearing. One thing I liked about EverQuest was how, at any given level, there were a half dozen or a dozen pieces to choose from, each with a different combination of stats, each dropping from very different available content.

I don't like that Blizzard designs basically two pieces of gear for each slot at each level, three if we're lucky. With the streamlining that's down to one. All the flexibility that they like claim they want to give us in talents and paths is fine, but it's countered if they take it all away in gear selection.

Except now it's easier to itemize and design armor pieces, so the art team can make more art, the design team can spread stats much faster, and you get more options on gear because it doesn't take a day and a half to double check the stats against the fourty flow charts that make up a developer's "Stuff We Already Did" files.

Streamlining means less time spent in design, not just less effort in figuring out what's an upgrade. That means more time for developement.

Digren wrote: Voila, holy paladins can now share gear with resto shamans, with absolutely no downside.

Other than looking slightly ridiculous walking around in shaman armor.

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:

Digren wrote: Voila, holy paladins can now share gear with resto shamans, with absolutely no downside.

Other than looking slightly ridiculous walking around in shaman armor.

I'm confused, are you implying that pallies don't look ridiculous walking around in paladin armour?

fafhrd wrote:

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:

Digren wrote: Voila, holy paladins can now share gear with resto shamans, with absolutely no downside.

Other than looking slightly ridiculous walking around in shaman armor.

I'm confused, are you implying that pallies don't look ridiculous walking around in paladin armour?

That is what I was thinking.

Plus I use shammy gear now anyways if it has the stats I want.

fafhrd wrote:

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:

Digren wrote: Voila, holy paladins can now share gear with resto shamans, with absolutely no downside.

Other than looking slightly ridiculous walking around in shaman armor.

I'm confused, are you implying that pallies don't look ridiculous walking around in paladin armour?

Different kind of ridiculous.

I don't mind defence vanishing like this, as long as all the other stuff being bandied around (massive simplification of stats) isn't on the agenda as well. I appreciate that it has its advantages, but I think it's a sad day for the game when the opportunity to choose between different pieces of gear effectively turns into adding up their relative stamina values.

All they seem to be doing is removing unintuitive stats (def for crit immunity, Armor pen), and streamlining the stats where there are multiple redundancies (AP, Agi, Strength; Spirit and MP5). The spellpower change isn't as clearly reasoned as this, but a lot of classes did have Stat->Spellpower talents, and they're after making the base stats more relevant, so it follows that.

There's not really much of a widespread simplification. What it really means for us is that all tanking items will look like Stoneguard, Peacekeeper Blade, Archaedas' Lost Legplates, and so on (and I don't mind that at all, Archaedas Lost Legplates would be very nice if I didn't need the def in that slot).