Advice wanted on starting kara and on bear tanks

Hi guys, sorry if this post looks a lot like another "am I ready for Kara" thread, but any advice on my current situation would be appreciated.

Essentially our guild is soon going to be starting Kara, I've been the only tank there for a while but we just recently got in a more experienced bear tank so its looking like I may have to take a back seat for a while. Basically I want to know more about bear tanks and whats the best way of making use of a bear + tankadin in Kara.

From what I understand of bear tanks they have higher armor vs not being able to block, higher dodge vs not being able to parry and higher HP vs being crushable. Threatwise I've heard they are marginally weaker on multi mobs and marginally stronger on single targets. Is the above reasonably accurate?

Here's my armoury link although it doesnt seem to have been updated since yesterday.

http://armory.wow-europe.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Doomhammer&n=Magnusharkov

Depending on whether the armoury has updated or not that should be my full tanking gear although I now have the elementium band of the sentry too. By the time we start kara I hope to have spaulders of the righteouss, bracers of the green fortress, crest of the sha'tar, a second max stam version of timewardens and the heroic libram. I should be uncrushable with 12.5HP unbuffed and around 49% avoidance.

I would link to my guilds druid but last time I checked he didnt log out in tanking gear so I dont want to give an unfair comparison.

Anyway, how would you split up tanking roles in Kara between a tankadin and a bear? Based on what I've read I feel like I should be able to tank the majority of stuff but I dont have any experience myself so any advice would be appreciated.

Simple. A big chunk of our threat comes from reactive damage (i.e. damage dished out by taking damage) while bears, on the other hand, are the best out of the 3 tanking classes at chalking up aggro when not being hit.

Therefore, you should take the MT role while the bear takes OT since he can still deal a decent amount of dps in tanking gear while we cannot.
_________________

You seem to have a good understanding of the differences between bear and non-bear tanking.

Not being able to compare your gear I would have the following points to make about usage of bears and tankadins in Kara:
*Comparing paladin and bear AOE tanking is like comparing concorde to a hanglider. You should be able to push through ballroom and other trash like a snowplough (open with holy wrath, after that it's impossible to go wrong). An OT trying to help you out would only slow you down on many of the trash packs.
*Neither of you have built in fear counters for Nightbane (bubble macros will get you through one fear).
*Ferals dps better than tankadin's heal. You should not need to vary the number of healers for most of Kara so if it's a choice between more overhealing or more dps I'd get the feral on dps. I'd only consider upping the healing on Curator and Prince but that is it.
*Both of you will need to tank on Moroes.
*Attumen is possible with just a single paladin tanking both but if you guys are starting out then one of you should probably tank Attumen and the other Nightmare (Nightmare tank goes off-healing/dps in phase 3).
*Maiden can be tanked by either of you but is melee unfriendly and paladins offer great support there (not as much support after 2.2 but cleanse is still important).
*Opera depends on encounter and class mix (availability of interrupts etc).
*Curator trash you will need to have the bear on the big mana-shielded mobs (assuming the hunter exploit is fixed, not tried for a while) and you on the mana drainers. Tanking those mana leeches will require some creativity on your part.
*Curator is possible with either but after the first few wipes you should have an idea of whether the raid group needs more melee dps or more healing.
*There is no tanking on Aran or Chess.
*I've only seen Illhoof tanked by paladins so it's hard for me to make a comparison.
*Netherspite will need both of you tanking. Paladin are quite cool as exorcism allows for fast pickups after the banish phase and if you're on the red beam you don't lose aggro if you bubble (only do this in the last 5 secs of a portals phase).
*Prince favours paladin block mechanics. My guild has used a feral so you'll have to judge whether you're low on healing or dps for that fight.

Hmm, wrote more than I planned to.
_________________

I do Karazhan with an excellent feral druid and I find the synergy perfect. Both of us are of the silly OTT multi-trash pulls mindset so we carve through trash like butter. Most ferals are happy as long as long as they aren't healing and they can act as the second tank on Netherspite.
_________________

Thanks for the advice guys, the boss breakdown was particularly appreciated. I may try and relay that to my Gm and see what he thinks.

With the avoidance thing I may be getting confused on terminology. When I say avoidance I mean chance to take no damage on an attack (dodge+parry+miss). I'm not entirely sure what the word is for dodge+parry+miss+block

Any more input is appreciated!

Smartest thing to do is to have you MT the progression fights and let him MT the farm fights. Never underestimate how badly a crushing blow at the wrong moment can fubar up things.

Its important that you establish a good relationship with the kitty. You don't want to get into a pissing contest with another tank. Its bad for business.
_________________

Actually, the way I've always heard it and used it, it's without block chance.
According to Lore's new Glossary, that's the normal use of it too

I actually prefer to do Kara with a druid helping me tank because of the synergy between our two classes. Druids are also much more likely to want to dps fights that you are tanking, where warriors are (rightly) scared of us outclassing them.

Like Mortehl said, though, the most important thing is to keep a good working relationship with the druid. Alternate who tanks different fights to find out what works best for you as a team. Inform him of the mechanics of paladin retroactive threat compared to his proactive dps threat. Lastly, don't get into a taunt-fest between the tanks...that never ends well.
_________________
Bramiest's Knight in Shining Armor

The enemy outnumber us a paltry three to one, good odds for any Paladin!

Bears aren't bad, but the ideal tanking partner for a Paladin tank in Karazhan is a DPS Warrior.

If you do go bear, you'll need to MT most of the mobs unless you are seriously undergeared relatively speaking and certainly all the fast hitters (of which there are many in Karazhan).

Druids make the greatest Offtanks in the game, but a double crush or a triple crush can really send things downhill fast, especially when you are trying to run with minimal healing (for faster clearing).

NB is going to be an issue for you, but you can eek by on that with BoP/DS/PVP Trinket