I want to kill my healers

I wonder if someone has ever had a issue like the following one:

Healers letting you die. And i mean, in a way that seembs like they do it on purpose.


Making a long story short:
- I've MT Maulgar a couple of times. On most of the attempts (note, i'm wearing t5 gear and same are my healers), they just decided to not heal me on the pull. Result: melee melee cleave melee dead in 10 seconds.
- I've MT Gruul only once. At 32%, i've not got a single heal for 15 seconds. Result: dead (boss killed however that time, they menaged to heal the druid OT through both melee and hurtful strikes)
- I often tank Void Reaver. A few times i've started. My healers didn't heal me on the pull and i died. The other times, when i get aggro, it's either LoH, bubble, pot+hs, or die. Out of tons of kills, i've ended up alive only twice.
- We were once doing Al'Ar and i was add-tanking. For some reason 2 out of 3 tanks on the big bird die and the boss is at 10%. The remaining tank gets Molten Armor. I run in and taunt with 3 birds also on me, i get him, i live for 12 seconds without heals, then Al'Ar + birds nuke me down. (and we wipe)
- I'm part of Bloodboil's tanking squad. On our kill, i died at 15% cause they forgot to heal me throught the grand total of 3 DoT stacks while i wasn't tanking.
- I always MT Supremus. On every kill, i cannot use Ironshield potions because if i don't pot up at kite->tanknspank transition i die because i get no heals in 7-8 seconds.

Today was the last and worst one, we didn't have our MT in raid, so i asked the other warriors if it was fine for them if i tank Winterchill (nothing special, was on the "to-be-done" list) and they are fine cause they wanted to slack. Waves go, we get Winterchill, Exorcism, 3k 4k icebolt-on-me 2k 2k 2k 7kcrushing dead, with no single heal in 15 seconds. I waited until the boss was down (one of the warriors menaged to ninja pickup him and tank him in DPS gear, nerf shield block) i went mad against them and the answer i got was "ohsorrywethoughtthewarriorwastanking"... quite funny that all the raid known that i was going to tank except seemb for the "MT healers". After that answer i left both Ventrilo and the healer's channel quite disgusted and quite frustrated, since i'm always debating with our MT about tankadin's viability, but i almost never menage to show him that i'm good enough because i just die on the damn pull.



What should i do with them, put all my guild's healers in my ignore list and go like they weren't here, or try to politely tell them to go to fuck off? Anyone has ever dealt with this kind of horrible situation?
Some might say "they just suck", thats not correct because when a warrior or druid is tanking they never do something like that. I just cannot find why they hate me, might it just be because i have a blue bar instead of a red one?


Yet sorry for the wall, might send it back to China someday. But please tell me a good way to not get mad on them which is not "leave the guild"
_________________

I would recommend depending on how your guild structure is to talk to the gm or an officer that would be sympathetic to you. wss stats can prove a lot as well from a raid in this regard and show that they are not healing you to give you a fair chance.

My guild prefers me to MT everything since the DPS can go all out, and for certain bosses I have to convince them that I am not the best tank for a boss. lol Let them know about ardent defender and how that works like a mini passive shield wall(18k hp raid buffed = aprox 6k hp with 30% less dmg), we are the least crushable of all tank classes, etc. Basicly you need someone in guild leadership to put a boot up the ass of your healers to give you a fair shot.

On a side note, I tanked Gruul again for my guild, and a new lock to the guild wanted the tanking shield to go to a dps warrior over me (I was the only prot in the raid that could equip a shield), since he might spec prot some day. I hadn't had a shield upgrade in 6months. lol anyways, this sort of thing will always happen till people get use to us tanking along the side of warriors and druids.
_________________
- the Fork

Bring it up with the Raid leader. You have the GrimReaper or other readout to show the hits you've taken without a single heal. That's proof. The gear should be enough to prove you can tank it as well as a dps warrior. If the raid leaders don't do anything about it, and you can't just tell your healers to piss off, there's nothing to do but find a new group to raid with.
_________________

Use facts and figures publically to sort them out.

In other words, tell them that "The Tank [which is you, but I suggest you do not say "I"] did not receive heals for x time, resulting in the wipe".

Make sure that in Chat and Vent, the rest of the guild understands where the issues lie. Make sure that the raid leader is primed - say something like "I would like to address the issues that caused the last wipe". If your Raid Leader cannot support you in this you are not gonna get far.
_________________
Aggramar EU

Khaz'goroth Oceanic

I haven't raided enough as a paladin tank to face this sort of thing but...

People don't like wipes. People don't normally like the unexpected.

If you can show the reason that you are wiping is because of the healers, and repeatedly, then that's important.

If you can show that they let you die, then let an off tank be healed fine, then that's plain descrimination.

As others have said, find a sympathetic officer or GM. Have the stats to back yourself up.

It might work even better for the officer to be the one presenting it. Something like: "I've been going over the logs for that fight we just struggled with. Can someone show me the stats of damage taken and healing recieved? ... Okay then, who was suppose to be the main tank here? ... So why were they not healed? What was the problem?"

If you make it less of a "I'm just an angry person" thing and more of "what was everyone as a raid thinking?" situation, then the focus is not your vendetta but the healers incompetence.

I hope that helps. That's all I can suggest.

EDIT: An advantage of it not being the angry person scenario is that instead of the healers going "well, we hated the tank, they made us look stupid, let's make their life complete and utter hell"...

Instead, it's the whole raid going "You are just being complete morons. Why don't you get your act together as healers or we gkick you."

If the healers want to take it out on you after it being made a general issue, it's going to cement them as bad, not you. You are not the person doing the wrong thing.

The anger is not on you, it's on the people who are doing it wrong. That's a better outcome as they either lift their game or leave.

Don't forget to try and talk to the healers as well. Ask them if there is anything that they are having issues with personally. Maybe you wronged them on an alt or something.
_________________

It sounds to me that either your healers are not all up there, "forgetting" to heal you, or "not knowing your the tank" or they are just insubordinate and against you. Neither one should be acceptable. Unless one of them is the RL, its ont up to them who is tanking, and if they want to be a part of the raid they should be healing the effing tank. I don't know how you or your guild could get to the point your at when your healers ahve that attitude.

All you can really do is tell your GM/RL about it. Confronting the healers personally would seem like an asshole move. Talk to whomever is the appropriate person and tell them about your frustration. Its absolutely imperative that healers and tanks work well together, because that is what holds together virtually every single encounter in the game. It should not be acceptable in any way shape or form for healers to be skimpy on heals when your MTing a boss in bloody Black Temple, and I would think that a guild progressed to that point would not have taht problem.
_________________

I had this problem in the beginning, but it wasn't because they didn't intentionally heal me. It was because they were used to me being a healer and as a healer I could heal myself, but we've since talked it over and not I don't have any problems like this at all.

The only class discrimination I faced was actually from some of the warriors and feral druids in the guild, maybe 2 of the Paladin Healers who wanted to be ret but couldn't put out the dps or stats asked of them to be invited to raids.

All in all, most people will be cool about it as long as you respect them and don't try to put the blame on them, even if it is their fault.
_________________

Seems to me that you have a communication issue with your healers. Just talk to them in a nice polite way and try to sort out things. I allways try to give my healers feedback and they do the same to me. (Sometimes after a raid we'll go throu positioning and other tactics).

So just talk to them. Don't go via RL/GM, just talk to them directly. If that doesn't work, your guild has some serious problems that your gm has to sort out (worst case senario, removing ppl).

Best of luck!
_________________

Sounds to me like you have healers who fit into one of two categories. They're bitter because you get to do something 'unconventional' while they're stuck healing instead of raiding shadow/enhancement/feral/retribution, or they're the kind of people who think there's only one way to play a character and have so little respect for you that they treat attempts with you tanking as taking a quick wipe so they can go back and do it 'for real'. Some raid healers have no problem letting people die, or the raid wipe, 'out of principle'. The same goes for some tanks, sadly. These people, for whatever reason, but most likely snobbish elitism, do not respect you.

If you're the only one having these issues, and the other tanks are getting healed, then there is either someone in your raid intentionally letting you die. This can't just be luck, or a misunderstanding, and it's certainly not because you're taking heaps more damage. It's not because of some magic coincidence where all the healers made the same mistake a million times. It's not a matter of everyone in the healing portion of the raid being confused on what to do either, considering you're at the tier 6 level, and at that point people who don't pay attention to the raid leader have gotten kicked out of the guild months before. Your guild master and/or raid leader needs to step in and take care of this or you need to find a new guild.
_________________

Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.

Not that it matters. Either they don't know how to heal the start of a raid fight or they don't like you. I would personally blackmail them. Have all the evidence (wws, grim reaper) and simply tell them they need to stop fucking up
_________________

Some people call me crazy but I like to think of myself as a freelance lunatic.
Ann Coulter is a Cylon

My suggestion on this one is to remain as proffessional as possible, and try and befriend a healer or two (even if offspec'd/ not main-healers)... Worse comes to worse. Its you and DPS against the healers, the healers may be important in keeping things going but these healers sound immature. Whatever you do, keep it mature and well presented, more people will side with you and respect you for that.
_________________

Recount -> "Healed Whom"

It was fun at Gurtogg when the tanks died, I looked after that and 3 of 4 tankhealers had about one third of their healing out of groupheal.
_________________

Cauze blizzard begins to let healing suck.

Make a parse of one of those fights, wws stuff. Talk to your guild leader. They're either diong that by stupidity or on purpose, can't tell from my side. If the problem is brought to light, it is bound to be solved some way.Make sure to not point it as if you feel damaged, use the guild's progress as the victim of said behavior. Makes it easier for your side without turning it into personal attacks.

Letting them die and use their excuse "Ops, I forgot I was the tank, didn't know I had to hold aggro" won't work =P
_________________

All getting pissed off does to the raid at large is get the rest of the team pissed off at you.

Try this.

1) If you're not using main tank targets, start. If you are, make sure you're set as the top guy before the boss pulls.

2) Get audible responses over vent before the pull confirming from the main tank healers that they acknowledge you're the main tank pull.

3) Take this up with the healers individually and privately outside of the raid and ask them why they're not supporting you as a tank? Just be frank with them. Tell them you're not pissed but you just don't understand why they have it in for you? It gives them an out to say nothing personal and to fix things, or it proves they're an asshole. Then make a post on your guild forums saying how you talked it over with x and y and z healers and how you guys are on the same page now and how it was just a stupid mistake.

When it happens again, guess who gets angry tells? Not you.

4) Begin displaying on your forums, and in raid chat the information which shows the healers neglecting you. Repeatedly show it off, and include your consumable/loh uses, et cetera.

5) Very specifically tell your raid leader that you are a tank and not a healer and if there isn't a place in the guild for a raid tanking paladin, you'd like to know about it now? He/She's going to be WTF of course there is. The reply is, funny, our healers don't seem to know that.

6) If this intervention doesn't work, as far as I'm concerned you tried all options and its probably time to find another guild.
_________________