MT gear progression

hmm id like to see the gloves off kael be added to #3, and the current #3's be bumped to 4. because i see:
Royal Gauntlets of Silvermoon
being better than maiden's gloves.
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After some testing this week in SSC, I have to say that I am quite fond of the Wristguards of Determination over the badge bracers.


Though I compltely understand why teh badge bracers would be good for boss tanking.

Within SSC, Fathom Lord: Tanked the hunter, pet and our Shaman tank went down pretty quick, so I tanked the Shaman, the hunter and the pet....my VR Bracers equipped. Was pretty impressed. Obviously it was all my healers, cause I had tanked the shaman previously and got owned in like 10 seconds.

A few points of uncrushability is not really that huge of a deal. Yes, you might get screwed, and yes, someday you will get screwed with a string, or even just one particularly nasty crushing, but statistically you're going to be fine 99% of the time.

So trading a dip to 100% avoidance (as opposed to 102.4%) for an extra 20 stamina is probably still a good trade, and of course this could apply to all stats, not just stamina.

To add to that, if you are 99% avoidance vs a lvl 73 then that 1% will not be a normal hit. It will ALWAYS be a crush. Normal hits get pushed off before crushes so once you have eliminated hits everything not miss/dodge/block/parry is a crush.

I'd also like to add that I don't agree that if there is a "warrior specific" item and a "pally specific" item in the same tier/zone that it's "the warriors". I have to say I strongly disagree. If you are gearing up for the best that you can do, depending on your role, then there are times where you need the extra avoidance, stam, BV and not INT or spell damage. You are pigeon holing paladins as a tanking class when you specify an item as "warrior only" because there is another "tanking" item that has INT and SD. I could understand comments like that pre-BC but come on we are way past that.

You only need as much SD as it takes to keep DPS below you, any SD over that and you are wasting stats because you certainly aren't taking SD to dps the boss down faster. The rest should be in saving healers mana.

"Warrior" items without INT/SD should be included if this is about Pally MT progression and excluded if this is "Specialty Pally Threat tanking".

I would say though that when there are both paladin and "warrior" pieces available in a given tier, it makes the most sense from a progression standpoint to give the "warrior" pieces to warriors first. Take the T6 wrists for example...you've got one Paladin piece and one fairly generic piece

Now I greatly prefer the Eternium bracers due to the unfortunate decision to put near-worthless block rating on the Seeker's, but I'll most likely be passing them to our Warriors first, because if I pick them up and then the Seeker's drop, I'll be sitting with 2 T6 wrists while we've got a Warrior raiding with T5 level. From a "good of the guild" point of view, we're much better of with me taking just the pally ones to start out and having 2 tanks instead of one with a T6 iem in that slot.

Of course, having a good rapport with your other tanks is key, both for loot distribution and general cooperation, they're teammates, not competitors. Also, things are different in Kara, where there is no equivalent Pally loot, so Pallies have equal claim to anything in there as far as I'm concerned.
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As with most of the post I've read by you Dorvan, it was well put and a very balanced reply. I agree, and to add on my thoughts...

I don't think the gear progression table should take into account other classes to weigh what gear is better. Gear is objective. This is the OPs loot table so he can make it whatever table he wants, but to exclude a tanking item because another class could use that item better then we could, then it is a very selective list. If this is a MT progression list then it needs to include items that are in fact a part of the progression. When I am MT I only add enough SD for the job, and the rest of my pieces are geared towards not dieing. Because points are spent in areas like INT or SD then there are less points spent in pure avoidance stats like a higher shield block rating or if we are really lucky dodge rating. Str doesn't help us all that much so SD vs STR obviously in favor of SD.

Example:
Boots of the Protector vs Red Havoc Boots
RHB have more avoidance and mitigation stats then BotP.

There are better examples, and you can give them an == but surely they are tanking boots that should be included. There are better examples but it was an easy one to pick out.

I don't want to drag examples off topic but my point is that if an item is an improved tanking piece it should be included or the list is incomplete. It should be up to the end user for them to make a decision whether or not they should bid for the piece or pass it to another guild member. Effectively you are imposing your philosophy that paladins should always pass even if the paladin is the guilds MT.

the way I see it is that there is pally tank gear with int/sd, warrior tank gear which has no int/sd but has strength and any gear for a tank with no int, sd, or strength is simply Tank gear and is equally valued by any class. So to say its "warrior gear" doesnt sync with my viewpoints. But then again I got the game just after TBC came out so Im not stuck with a certain "im better cuz ive been playing longer" mentality.
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At this risk of repeating something i am going to ask out of curiosity why the Jungle Stompers are not in the Gear list.

They have highly desirable stats for a Paladin and would be wonderful if I ran ZA and this dropped along with the shoulders in the timed Chest event.
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Jedit's armory

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Khadgar&n=Jedit