Lack of Hit

Anyone notice the lack of hit on the 25man loot? seems like either you grab some of the heroic 10man loot for hit or gem and/or enchant hit.

yeah, I think I'm gonna save for 10men hard, and take the T9 pants for hit. I'm a believer of a Balance gear even on an EH gear. I'm already expertise soft cap now, so not like I'm gonna need a lot more. through if I can switch to a SLOW dps weapon with hit, and gem more defense on gear for the lack of it on weapon, the dps increase would be greater (at the cost of a bit of stamina).

Are we back in TBC with dps weapons? if they continue to put so much hit on them and none on tanking gear, I think so.

Yea not one piece of 25 man (normal and heroic) loot has hit (according to mmo loot list) that is a bit worrying.

Tbh with the taunt glyph working with both taunts now, surely hit is only reli gona be for threat? although ofc theres gona be a point where u might need some

Given all the expertise that's on our ilvl258 gear (by my latest count, 171 expertise rating on our BIS), I'm sure you could justify dropping the Glyph of Seal of Vengeance for a taunt glyph.

This concerns me a bit, I sit at around 160 hit at the moment, and I would never want to go lower. I fear the threat dropoff if my hit goes much lower.

I'm not too worried about it. we have 2 8 second cooldown taunts, so I don't care if the first one resists and the chances of both resisting is extremely small. it will be a hit to threat though, but our threat is good as it is. I would say it is always best to maximize defensive stats before worrying about threat. downgrading gear for a threat stat is out of the question.

Ascendant wrote:I'm not too worried about it. we have 2 8 second cooldown taunts, so I don't care if the first one resists and the chances of both resisting is extremely small. it will be a hit to threat though, but our threat is good as it is. I would say it is always best to maximize defensive stats before worrying about threat. downgrading gear for a threat stat is out of the question.

I somewhat disagree with this statement. It depends on the magnitude of the downgrade. Threat capping dps is a bad thing and will lead to lots of whining, and in my guild tank switches. On most farm fights already I swap out lots of survival gear for threat gear. I am not going to die on razorscale unless the healers DC/daze out, but I could have issues if I cant hold threat off the mages. So on that fight I drop 2k health and some avoidance to pick up hit cap and around 1k more block value. I do this on lots of fights in Ulduar, and will probably do it in normal colliseum.

I wouldn't worry about this too much. I have 78 hit at the moment and don't threat cap dps on virtually any fight including the 25 hard modes. Taunt/shield misses appear fairly frequently but it's not really a problem.
I have gear with more hit to switch in if needed but it hasn't been.

Dem wrote:I wouldn't worry about this too much. I have 78 hit at the moment and don't threat cap dps on virtually any fight including the 25 hard modes. Taunt/shield misses appear fairly frequently but it's not really a problem.
I have gear with more hit to switch in if needed but it hasn't been.

Maybe I suck at threat, I try to run with ~200 hit. On a normal run of the mill fight I put out around 7k-8k tps, with that I am still not that far above the dpsers. Our best dps are at 7500+ dps on most fights and as such I have a fairly thin lead on them. They have yet to rip off me but I fear if I drop my hit much more, and they grap a lil more colliseum loot that it could become a problem.

The lack of hit worries be very much. I am of the opinion that its better to be a balanced tank than, purely EH or Avoidance. Threat is not an issue. It will never be an issue if your Rogues and Hunters are assisting you with MD and Tricks. However, I usually get one MD at the start and the Rogues put Tricks on themselves.

Hit is our greatest threat increasing stat before you hit the cap. Some will say threat doesn't matter we generate so much threat. I generate around 8K TPS sustained. I float down to 7K sometimes and up to 9K or even higher sometimes. However, Our top DPS are easily only 10 to 15% behind in threat now. There are no worries currently. But if you've noticed the DPS are scaling up faster than we are. I used to run well over their threat and pretty damn close to their DPS. As gear progressed they scaled up much faster. This will continue to happen. I'm currently hit capped, and expertise soft capped. However, looking at the new gear, I think my threat will pretty much stay the same if I do not sacrafice some slots for hit. I doubt the DPS will stay the same.

There is no flat out BiS set. Everyone will have different valuations of stats.

Getting hit capped sacrafices from Avoidance. At best thats 232 stat points of avoidance(Draenei in party). For dodge or parry thats about 5% avoidance before diminishing returns. If a piece has Defense, Dodge, and Hit then you are giving up the Parry. At the high end of avoidance thats what maybe 3% avoidance after DR at best? I will trade 3% of avoidance for being hit capped.

If you look at the encounters, what ends up killing you when its not your healers falling asleep? From what I see its mostly special attacks that avoidance doesn't factor into. You cannot dodge or parry Fusion Punch, Unbalancing Strike, Plasma Blast, etc. Avoidance may help your healers mana, but right now mana is infinite for good healers, even with the changes. The only thing that will save you from those hits is health. This wasn't a problem in Ulduar as the hit items and the avoidance items were the same level. In ToC, this is a problem in that the pieces you will need to stay hit capped will require using a lower level item in a couple slots. So you are now also giving up stamina.

I haven't had time to go through all the gear and work out my sets yet. But, I have a suspicion that It will include 10 man hard items for their sockets and other stats, like the boots and bracers. It will probably put me at most 1k below the health of a full 258 level geared tank, but I doubt that will make a difference with the health numbers we're going to see. Ardent Defender puts our EH much higher than that of Warriors, so either we'll be fine losing some stamina, or Warriors will be screwed.

Dont want to say to much i am no elicit.

I tank with +- 85 hit and will even go as low as 28 hit.
Idont have problems at all.

Hodir maybe.

Felkor wrote:Dont want to say to much i am no elicit.

I tank with +- 85 hit and will even go as low as 28 hit.
Idont have problems at all.

Hodir maybe.

yeah, but like we said, it all depends on your actual progression. You have a bit more block value than me, but I have around 6% to 7% more avoidance with 2k more hp for 25men hard modes.
Your gear is perfectly fine for 10men hard modes, which are really easy compare to 25men hard modes (because we do them with 25men gear), but XT hard mode 25 for exemple is both a mitigation/healing fight and dps race. I still have a good margin of threat when tanking it, but the intelligent thing is to take the least amount of dmg, and still been able to make good threat.

Hodir10men is extremely easy once people know how to do it, on 25men, it's not that simple, and mages pulling 14k to 15k dps are a real pain in the ass. Again, for hard mode, you have around 4 healers for the entire raid, you can't afford to take huge dmg spikes (=good armor and avoidance) and you need to survive the frozen blow (= need high stamina) all that while doing all the threat you can (= need good threat). For this fight, you need a good balance gear set, and runing around with low hit isn't gonna cut it (1 shield slam miss and a mage crits for 55k and instantly overaggros you).

Well if it it becomes that bad, we have a new green gem option for yellow sockets.

I respect your post, but I am in my trash tanking set atm and I carry low stamina in that set, I have a frost set ofc for tanking Hodir and I have an AV set for bosses.
I have like 4 sets that I do use. In 25 man raid buffed in my MT set ill have 69% avoid, 25% dodge 20% parry and 24% block +- and 48k hp I am at work so cant check it atm. In that set I only have 26 or so hit and19 expertise, no one will over agro me on a boss fight other than Hodir.

I am sure that + hit will give me more tps but I expect the gear to give it to me ill not enchant or gem for + hit until I see I cant hold my own.

I average on 6 to 9k tps and have reached over the 20k on some fights. If I look at my tps to most others then I am that one step in front of them atm. If I look at the damage that I do take from Steelbreakers fusion punch then I am all too happy with my set up, leaving my healer still with 50% of his mana after steelbreakers mates are dead.

Ok it all sound like I disagree regarding the hit but I am not, all I am saying is that I don’t struggle holding agro 95% of the times and that I am easy healable tank. (Use the right gear set up for the job you are doing)

I can hold agro on sarth when we do the 3 drake zerg and dpsers go all out, mages and locks and rogue for example can all manage there treat and that’s part of there job for when the tank does lose agro for what ever reason.