The definitive WotLK raid buffs/class balance post

I'm using a ret paladin as an example "name holder" here only. You're right they have additional benefits beyond the scope of raid buffs mentioned. Though I'd point out that judges can be done by any raid paladin, and hand of sacrifice would probably be most used on the retadin himself.

So, if it makes you analyze the situation better, replace ret paladin with a fury warrior. Consider a raid with Imp blessing of might, a feral druid, a prot warrior or warlock, etc. What unique and useful debuffs/buffs/tricks would they have a raid would feel merits them over something else?
Intervene? Charge? I don't think someone in a pve setting would consider these desirable in a DPS to merit a spot. So, with less assumed DPS than a rogue, they can become a liability.

Then repeat for boomkin, etc. In an optimal set up (which progression favors) there will have to be a loser unless unique glyphs and similar DPS make up for buff loss.

Perhaps this is more pertinent for other DPS or healer classes than a retadin.

I'm kinda surprised that they didn't change PW:F to match commanding shout and blood pact. I guess priests need something special to offer?
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Rasmfrackn
Dwarf Paladin
Icecrown Server

Some of the 'capabilities' you list aren't really feasible in a 25 man raid environment. I mean, if you count off-tanking for ret paladins I'd just throw stun-lock, evasion, gouge, blind, etc at you. As far as I can recall, there are 0 boss fights in a 25-man a ret paladin is capable of tanking where RoS p1 enrage is usually handled by rogues.

maybe I am a little doom and gloom. You have a nice rogue. It's better than mine. I gave up on PVE on my rogue and went to PVP because I was tired of the getting looked over for someone who could buff the group, drop totems, whatever. I went back to my pally and haven't stopped tanking since. my rogue is specc'd sstep, wearing meh gear, and does dailies. He used to be my main, and I keep looking for a reason to dust him off again, but nothing every gets me to that point.


sorry I will stop ranting.
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My Paladin
TBC: {11/11 kz}{2/2 gl} {1/1 mag} {6/6 za} {6/6 ssc} {4/4 TK} {4/5 MH} {9/9 BT} I HATE YOU ARCHIMONDE

As far as I know, rogues/locks tend to have the highest dps. So think of it like this. If your guild is raiding they have 2 choices. They can get all the necessary buffs with 7 classes, and get the necessary healers, then once buffs are out of the way, the other 10-15 spots in the raid are left open for DPS.

So a raid can theoretically stack rogues and pure dps classes because of the greater dps, or add more combat utility classes (like druids for combat res).

I think most guilds will choose the dps route which means there is little reason not to bring 5 rogues to a raid if they do better dps then a class who's buff is already covered. For most of the classes Shoju listed, there is no reason to bring them if their buff is already covered. Why bring a class who can bring a redundant buff and do 1500 dps, when you could just bring a rogue or warlock who can do 2k dps?

Yeah sometimes you might want a backup in case someone providing a valuable buff dies, but that tends to not be the case. You don't bring extra shaman to the raid and say it is in case one dies, instead you use those spots on classes that do the most DPS.

In my experience when I raid, I build the raid with the assumption we'll succeed and people will not fail at their jobs. I do not build redundant raids with extra people ready to take the spot of someone who fails at their job. If I need 1 shaman for totems, I will not take an extra one in case one of them stands in fire and dies. I do not add extra feral druids to the raid because one of the tanks might die and I might need the feral druid to stop tanking. If one tank keeps dying, instead of bringing the feral as backup, find why that tank is dying and fix it if it is fixable. I don't really know anyone who builds their raids around redundancy, you min/max in order to create the raid with the highest dps, while at the same time bringing the necessary buffs/tanks/healers, this means DPS classes benefit from the changes when you are min/maxing.

All this means Rogues may actually benefit from this change in min/maxing situations.

Or maybe it will be easier to keep a core group of 10 or 25 people together, instead of the coming and going of guild spots.

So if the core group of people actually stay together and progress at a decent pace, does it REALLY matter if a rogue does better dps than the enh shaman? Or will the balance become more of who actually shows up on time, with buffs, and are skilled at game mechanics?

Again I do not have a beta key, but I think all of this theory of who to bring and who not to bring is just QQ. Bring the person with the best skill and the best attitude and let the bosses fall down dead.
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To skirt the current back-and-forth, but stay on topic...

I really hate to toss out a "could you post this over there" to you fine fine beta testers, but! The new Replenishment thing REALLY seems like it would make more sense as a % of base mana, doesn't it? If spells are based on base mana, then regen should too. Otherwise I have a strong suspicion that a couple of raid tiers in, when casters (not us, of course...) are gaining lots of int, that Replenishment will be a faster-scaling regen than their costs. When that happens, they may very well "rebalance" it in such a way to reign in the top-geared casters that really reduces its value for lower-geared people.

I know scaling with gear is important, but regen is one of those sticky things because costs don't change commensurately.

Thoughts? Hopefully this at least crosses the devs' desks and gets a once-over, even if they don't end up agreeing.
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Rasmfrackn
Dwarf Paladin
Icecrown Server