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Maintankadin

Has anyone suggested this on the WOTLK forums?

Vesstair
Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:13 pm

Has anyone suggested this on the WOTLK forums?

Seeing as how Blizzard seems to be doing a wholesale redesign of paladins as tanks, I was wondering if anyone had brought this suggestion up. Currently, holy shield reads: http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27179

Holy Shield
280 Mana
Instant cast 10 sec cooldown
Requires Shields

Increases chance to block by 30% for 10 sec and deals 155 Holy damage for each attack blocked while active. Damage caused by Holy Shield causes 35% additional threat. Each block expends a charge. 4 charges.

Also, it is possible it is being changed to 6 charges baseline. ( http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents2.html#none )

I was thinking about it, and with the shield block changes and Tankadin design seeming to hinge so much on our shields ( Divine Strength, Redoubt, Shield Specialization, Blessing of Sanctuary, Holy shield, Improved Holy Shield, and Shield of Righteousness all directly or indirectly have to do with our shield, and Ardent Defender stacks VERY well with blocks), we are intended to be the tanks who block everything/AoE tank (compared to warriors having the best innate mitigation and the tricks to call on, druids having very high dodge, armor, and health, and Death Knights having very high parry chances and the best tools to tank casters).

Now, if Holy Shield is intended to remain our core ability, it'd be really nice if it scaled smoothly through content. I would propose that with the general class redesign and the change of many of our skills to one rank (seals, judgements, etc), now would be a good time to change Holy Shield to something such as:

Holy Shield
4% of base mana
Instant cast 8 sec cooldown
Requires Shields

Increases chance to block by 30% for 10 sec and deals 50% of shield block value as Holy damage for each attack blocked while active. Damage caused by Holy Shield causes 35% additional threat. Each block expends a charge. 6 charges.

and eliminate all coefficients . This would make Holy Shield scale directly and comparably with our other threat abilities (since str is intended to be the main threat stat, and now noticeably increases block value) and keep all cooldowns in a MT rotation useful through all content, instead of becoming a laughable single-target threat generator after a tier and a half.

*edit*

My subscription is dead until WOTLK is available, so I can't post this on the official forums. Please transport it to the beta forums if you support it.

*Further edits including my calculations on this have been moved to my first reply*
moduspwnens
Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:17 pm
I think I read somewhere that the six charge change was just a typo on the talent calculator.
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PsiVen
Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:21 pm
I do quite like this idea, but this might make our threat scaling too tied up in SBV. ShoR is so powerful that it's tied for our #1 single-target threat stat already.

We also have to worry about the opposite case scenario, which is that SBV may become a defunct stat and we'll be getting it all from Strength. That would lead to 50% SBV being possibly too weak. This problem exists in leveling 40-67 as well, where block value is pretty low and doesn't come on gear.

It's not a bad suggestion, but I would wait for now until we see whether they've been counting on getting rid of all pure block value gear.
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Rival Psivenia, 70 Warriorlol
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Vesstair
Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:30 pm
My collected maths on this topic:

Mid 70s BS BoE blues:
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=40673
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=40672
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=40675
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=41116
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=41114
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=40669
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=40674
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=40671
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=41113

Totals: 609 stam, 325 str, 187 block value
(113 str, 187 BV, 187 stam for just helm, boots, shield)

Level 80 epics (crafted + nax badge stuff)
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=40701
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=41392
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=41387

144 str, 357 stam, 211 BV

That's about a 27.5% increase in str, an increase of 24 straight block value, and almost double the stam. If we assume this continues for all our gear slots, that would mean about (325 * 1.275 ~=) 414 str and (609 * 1.909 ~=) 1163 stam, making for (422 * 1.15*1.1 *.5 + 211 ~=) 473 block value and (1163 *.3 ~=) 349 sp dmg @ 80.

Now, relating this to holy shield:
Current Holy Shield: (360 * .05 + 200 ~=) 217 DPB(damage per block)
My version:(473 * .5 =) 237 DPB.

Considering I am suggesting using a full epic set, I think the numbers work out pretty realistically, and will continue to scale appropriately; to compare scaling:

1 strength would increase your DPB by .25 for my version, and one sp power would increase your DPB by .05 (meaning each stam would increase your DPB by .015) for the current version.

To put this in perspective, if you assume that you get no str or block value from anything else, you would need to pick up 400 spell damage (or 1333 stam) from your other pieces to make up that difference of 20 damage.

Out of curiosity, comparing the scaling I'm proposing with some of the other spells we use in tanking:

1 STR = (1* 1.15 (div. str) * 1.1 (kings) * 2(ap conversion) = 2.53 AP

SoR: (2.53 *.05 * 1.9=) .24035 TPS
JoR: (2.53 * .45 / 10 * 1.9 =) .216315 TPS
SoV: (2.53 *.07 * 5/18 * 1.9 =) .093469... TPS (for 5-stack)
JoV: (2.53 * .54 / 10 * 1.9 =) .259578 TPS (for 5-stack)
ShoR: (1 / 2 * 2 / 6 =) .1666667 TPS

compared to

HS: (.25 * 1.3 * / 8 (cooldown) *1.9 =) 0.0771875 TPS per block or 30875 TPS if all 4 base charges are eaten by a single attacker.

This looks like about the right ballpark for scaling to me. Also consider that a boss would have to have an average blockable attack speed of 2.0 or faster to be able to eat all 4 charges.

(assumed for this post: the coefficient for HS is still .05 spdmg/block)
moduspwnens
Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:09 pm
Anyway, the last two or three posts were what I was expecting to come after my first post saying I heard it somewhere. I'm not in beta so I can't confirm. Sorry about the confusion. :P
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moduspwnens
Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:22 pm
As far as actual opinion on the idea, I'm not sure. I don't have enough experience with the technique or our overall threat.

and stop telling everyone about my baby killing habits. >.<
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Mithos
Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:29 am
The calculators say 4 charges now.
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Widdox
Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:41 am
Which completely FUBAR's my planned 80 talent spec again... sigh...
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Belloc
Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:26 am
Let's be honest -- holy shield probably isn't going to be a heavily used main tank ability, 4 charges or not.