3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

This is a good discussion of the reasons to not gem for +hit. I'll link to it in the guide when I'm willing to make edits.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... =viewtopic

theckhd wrote:

Aedh wrote:

theckhd wrote:Just noticed i used 0.84 in all of the agility calculations where I should have used 0.83. Normally it wouldn't make a difference, but we've been calculating these things out to four decimal places, so...

I'll go back and fix them when I get some time, probably tomorrow morning.

now is that 0.83 or 0.8300?

It's technically 45.25018692/(59.88023952/1.1)=0.831245934.

(dodge rating for 1% dodge) / (agil for 1% dodge)



Also I've updated the numbers in my post, they should all be correct now (using all 9 decimal places of accuracy in the conversion, even).

-creeps away-

Some days you inspire me to start back up working towards engineering.
Others you scare the crap out of me.

Hi all I am new here and hope this is not a lame first post I have tried to read every sticky.

In regards to the shield enchant. Should I still use [Enchant Shield - Defense] over [Titanium Plating] even if I am already over 540 Defense. this would be for my main tank EH set.



Shield Enchant
[Enchant Shield - Defense] : +20 Defense Rating : Crafted (Enchanting)
[Titanium Plating] : +81 Block Value : Crafted (Blacksmithing)

neither.
+18 stam.
The lists aren't fully updated in places.

Depends, on what your cloak and chest are enchanted with. If they have def enchants on them, you should swap them first. Still above 540? If so then get +18sta.

Aedh wrote:neither.
+18 stam.
The lists aren't fully updated in places.

But ONLY consider +18 stamina if you first meet the requirements of the other options listed, for example you are at a stage where defence no longer matters, already have +40 stam to bracers, +225 armor to cloak, +275 health to chest. Then and only then should you consider the +18 stam to shield as it is a weak enchant against the defence ratio.

For most people starting ICC def isn't an issue, if however you are not yet raiding in ICC then you may find that you get into problematic situations by gearing towards an ideal that you simply do not need to be gearing towards at your current gear level/progression.

I cannot stress how important it is to be aware of what gear level you are at [as per Digren's tankadin gearing stages guide] and what your individual needs are!

Barathorn

He did say he was over 540.
But you are right. Cloak and chest are the best places to cut def before the shield.

I am tanking ICC now, this will be my second week doing it. So I am trying to dial in my enchants/gems this thread was really helpful.

Here is my armory link.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... Repairbill

I will replace the titanium plating with the +18 stamina. Is there anything else on the guide that is not updated? I have gemmed/enchanted all my gear based on the guide.

Thank you all for the help, this is a great forum I have been amazed at the amount of information already in the Stickys/guides. I have been browsing for weeks this was the first thing that was not clearly already answered that made it so I needed to register.

Aedh wrote:He did say he was over 540.
But you are right. Cloak and chest are the best places to cut def before the shield.

And leaving the not-as-efficient shield enchant in place gives some fungibility for gearing +DEF

ekim952522000 wrote:Is there anything else on the guide that is not updated?

I'm really sorry about that. I'll work on it this weekend.

I was updating the guide for 3.3 when the last site redesign broke indentation. Un-ordered lists no longer indent:

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With absolutely no way to indent (the [indent] BBCode is disabled) this totally screws up my guide formatting. I was hoping it would be a quick fix, and I could get back to work, but I guess it's a harder fix to make.

This weekend, I'm going to create a 50 pixel by one pixel transparent image, and use it at the start of lines to create indentation. It's the only thing I can think of to restore organization. Then, I'll finish my updates.

Gemming question...

While I understand the list on the socket bonuses, and when to get it and when to just gem stam, there's one thing I don't see.. how does the # of gem slots effect that?

For example, I bought Cat last night, and matched the sockets to get the +12 stam bonus. But since it takes 3 gems to get that bonus, is that effectively a +6 stam bonus since you have to use 2 non-pure-stam gems to get it? Should I have gemmed it pure stam?

From the guide.

What if the gear has multiple sockets? How should I evaluate the socket bonus?
You should divide the socket bonus among the non-blue sockets. For example, if a piece has a red, a yellow, and a blue socket, and the bonus is +9 stamina, then the bonus associated with the blue socket is nothing (since a stamina gem goes there regardless) and the bonus for the yellow and red sockets is just +4.5 stamina each. If you are a level three or four tank, you should skip such a poor bonus and stack stamina.

ekim952522000 wrote:From the guide.

What if the gear has multiple sockets? How should I evaluate the socket bonus?
You should divide the socket bonus among the non-blue sockets. For example, if a piece has a red, a yellow, and a blue socket, and the bonus is +9 stamina, then the bonus associated with the blue socket is nothing (since a stamina gem goes there regardless) and the bonus for the yellow and red sockets is just +4.5 stamina each. If you are a level three or four tank, you should skip such a poor bonus and stack stamina.

hmm.. missed that... so the Cat chest is case where I could go pure stam (unless I decide to use it for my meta req.)

Hey Theck/Meloree,

Could we get redone numbers for the Stamina/Avoidance ratios taking into account the change to Sacred Duty? Or do they not change the numbers at all?

Avoidance is still an afterthought, if that's what you mean.

Fiaraa wrote:Avoidance is still an afterthought, if that's what you mean.

Kind of. I'll get to that later.

Currently by the math a Shifting Dreadstone in a Red Socket with a 9 STA socket bonus has a ratio of 2.0750 which is just above the value a Level 4 tank should be gearing for. While technically it's better to go with the Shifting Dreadstone instead of a Solid Majestic Zircon, it's close enough so that you could go either way.

But now the numbers have changed and I'm not sure how. It could be the a Shifting Dreadstone is now firmly above the 2.0 ratio mark, at which point you would almost always want to pick that as your gem of choice. Or it could push it below, say down to a 1.8, at which point you would almost always want to replace it with a Solid Majestic Zircon at Level 4.

And saying that Avoidance is an afterthought is a gross exaggeration. It's generally much worse than EH, but there are definitely cases where the benefit of the additional stamina one would get is so tiny that giving up the avoidance one would get is not a valid trade-off. Like replacing a Shifting Dreadstone with a Solid Majestic Zircon in a red socket that has a +12 STA bonus gives such a miniscule benefit that it's never worth giving up.

Those numbers were all pre-buff stamina anyhow, so they don't need to be updated.

And in any event, the value of "2.0" was completely arbitrary. We just found that we tended to pick up red +9 stam bonuses, but nothing less, and figured on that as a good dividing line. I don't think we ever codified that anywhere though, Digren just observed that most of us were using that as a rule of thumb, and included it in his guide when he came up with his "tank level" structure.

In other words, even if the numbers did change, there's no reason that you'd change your gearing strategy if Shifting Dreadstone dropped to 1.95 from 2.05.

One point to consider with this guide is how quickly tanks can go from stage 1 to stage 2 or 3. By just accumulating emblems, new level 80s can quickly get to the stage where Wow heroes, at least, thinks they should be concentrating on ToC and ICC. Yappo's guide outlines a plan that would take a month to exhaust emblem of triumph gear. When I first read Yappo's guide, as a casual new level 80 terrified of attempting random heroics, I thought he was assuming a ridiculously ambitious and fast route to gearing. However, about a month or so on, here I am with the gear he recommended.

The problem is that gearing up as a level 1 tank per the guide can leave you having sunk quite a lot of money in epic gems and some enchants that are sub-optimal for an aspiring level 3. My unbuffed hp are mediocre (34K) but my avoidance seems to be through the roof (due in part to the Onxyia trinket). However, I am not sure I can face re-gemming and re-enchanting for stamina at this point. One could say I was foolish to use epic gems and top tier enchants if I am concerned with cash, but an insecure new level 80 tank risking the derision of PUGs, is probably as keen to maximise their gear as they are poor.

For a cash constrained new level 80, there may be a case for thinking ahead a little. Items that are "keepers" - the white knight chest, for example - might best be epic gemmed and enchanted for pure stamina. Lower item level stuff that will be replaced might where you look for avoidance enchants and gem for slot bonuses (but perhaps not epic gem). One way of putting this would be to say one should gem and enchant the stuff in Eanin's guide (reputation and crafted ilevel 200 gear) for the defence minimum but to try to buff the gear in Yappo's guide (emblem of triumph and ToC 5 man) with effective health in mind. Early on, I suspect one can make gear choices that allow one to meet the defence minimum while still gemming and enchanting the triumph gear for effective health. Those choices might be strickly speaking sub-optimal given what is possible at the time, but cost effective when viewed as a stop-gap stage in the month or so of exhausting emblems of triumph

Say you are a JC (no longer have to meet Meta requirements) and you are above the def minimum of 540, is it still viable to run the hybrid gems of agi/stam def/stam or just put solid majestic zircon in those for EH? This would be for a tank tanking ToC, ToGC and ICC 10 mans.

Depends on the socket bonus you are foregoing. Check the chart at the top of the topic and compare it to what stage of the tanking life-cycle you are in (probably 3-4). Its probably better to just go STA unless its a very, very good bonus unless you're low on +hit/+crit etc etc etc.

99sitr wrote:Say you are a JC (no longer have to meet Meta requirements)

Has something changed in the last week that means JCs don't have to meet Meta requirements?

Oh do you mean you have already met them somewhere else?

lythac wrote:

99sitr wrote:Say you are a JC (no longer have to meet Meta requirements)

Has something changed in the last week that means JCs don't have to meet Meta requirements?

Oh do you mean you have already met them somewhere else?

It used to be that Dragonseyes were prismatics and counted against all gem types, making meta requires trivial for JCs. This has not been the case for some time, as I recall.

Yes that is what I am getting at, he is saying that JCs don't have to worry about meeting Meta requirements, which is not the case.

So I am asking did he mean -

"Say you are a JC (have already met Meta requirements)"

lythac wrote:Yes that is what I am getting at, he is saying that JCs don't have to worry about meeting Meta requirements, which is not the case.

So I am asking did he mean -

"Say you are a JC (have already met Meta requirements)"

That is what I thought too. Perhaps it is a poor, forlorn message that was lost in time that we are only now seeing!

Alixander wrote:Hey Theck/Meloree,

Could we get redone numbers for the Stamina/Avoidance ratios taking into account the change to Sacred Duty? Or do they not change the numbers at all?

It affects some of the numbers but not others.

• Stamina/Defense ratios are completely unchanged. It's still Defense / Stamina = ratio.
• Stamina/Agility ratios might need to change a bit, since Agility calculations take into account the stamina equivalent to Agility's armor. This one will take Theck; I'm not certain if armor just got better because of the Stamina nerf.
• Health/Anything ratios have definitely changed. For example, the chest enchant option. To determine the Defense / Stamina ratio, the equivalent Stamina to +275 Health was calculated. Because of the Stamina nerf, the value of +Health enchants just increased.