3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Archiving the 3.2 guide for later reference.

Tankadin 3.2 Item Enhancement

The gates of the coliseum have opened, and the heroes of Azeroth stride forth, testing their might and courage before the inevitable showdown with the Lich King. With the new challenges come new changes, as adjustments in avoidance have disrupted long-standing rules for item enhancement. This guide has been adjusted to accommodate the reality of post-3.2 tanking, based on my experience and that of other Maintankadins as discussed on this site.

Remember, only you, the experienced tankadin, knows what's best for you given your gear and raid role.

With so many changes since our heroes first stepped into Northrend, the Heroic/Naxx gem and enchant guide is hopelessly outdated. Tankadins, regardless of your tier, keep reading for an all-around guide.

General Theory

Arguably the most basic requirement to survive as a tank - to not take critical hits - is unchanged. Defense of at least 540 - defense rating of 689 - remains a minimum requirement, and all item decisions must consider this. Even if the best choice for your gear strategy and raid role is to stack stamina or armor, you must defer to defense rating to keep the minimum. There have been many discussions on this topic.

Block Capping?
Block capping - that is, maintaining avoidance + block of 102.4% buffed - was a critical requirement through the Burning Crusade, and remained valid for Naxxramas. Since then, as the size of the average boss hit scaled but block did not, sacrificing anything to remain block capped became less and less important. Block value has been buffed for 3.2, but block is still woefully inadequate as a survival stat. For the most part, block capping is not affected by gems and enchants, but this guide assumes you don't really care.

Stamina Stacking
As the assault on Icecrown continues, more and more tanks turn to stamina stacking to scale with the content. This should be done in a logical way to ensure the opportunity cost for each gem and enchant swap is the lowest available.

Some analysis of opportunity cost in terms of avoidance:sta ratio has led to an ordered list. Caution, that list lumps all forms of avoidance together. Defense, while a good provider of avoidance at any level, must be maintained for crit immunity. It may be necessary to sacrifice agility enchants with a higher opportunity cost for stamina instead of lower-cost defense enchants, simply to remain at the defense minimum. The following list, then, details each defense option and its stamina alternative, in order for replacement:

• Chest - Greater Defense to Chest - Superior Health (1.0092)
  
• Defense/stamina gem to pure stamina gem, sacrificing 6 avoidance socket bonus (1.0667)
• Defense/stamina gem to pure stamina gem, sacrificing 6 stamina socket bonus (1.1111)
• Shield - Defense to the BC-era Shield - Major Stamina (1.1111)
• Greater Inscription of the Pinnacle to Greater Inscription of the Gladiator (1.1667)
Likewise, the following list details each non-defense avoidance option and its stamina alternative, in order for replacement:

• Agility/stamina gem to pure stamina gem, sacrificing 6 avoidance socket bonus (1.100)
• Gloves - Major Agility to Heavy Borean Armor Kit (1.1857)
• Agility/stamina gem to pure stamina gem, sacrificing 6 stamina socket bonus (1.186)

The Rise of Parry
Don't be fooled; parry still isn't as good as dodge. But parry has been buffed while dodge was nerfed, making it acceptable to intelligently gem for parry. Read through the gem guide for rules to direct your choices.

Basic Gear Strategy

Questions about gear strategy come up often with gems and enchants, because, while most people "take what they can get" with regard to gear, most everyone has their choice of item enhancements.

What follows, then, is a basic guide for how to direct your progression.

1. Maintain the defense minimum of 540.
2. Build gear sets tailored for effective health, avoidance, and block/threat. You shouldn't destroy old gear; retain those pieces to form the foundation of these custom sets.

This gem and enchant guide has been enhanced to help those working on custom sets to pick the best gem and enchant options.

Note that, for me, my primary gear set is tailored for effective health. Alternative sets are only used as required. If you detect bias in my opinions, consider this viewpoint as the reason.

Archiving the 3.2 guide for reference.

Gemming

With the release of epic gems in 3.2, gemming for socket bonuses is less important. If a bonus provides a useless stat (e.g. block rating) or too little of a useful stat (e.g. +2 dodge rating), consider the sockets colorless. However, some bonuses - particularly high-stamina ones (at least +6 stamina, if not higher) - remain viable, and many tanks will need some yellow or red gems to maintain the defense minimum and activate meta gems. This guide assumes that most people will want some of their socket bonuses. Thus, gem options are provided for each gem slot color, with consideration given to gems that fit in any slot and slots that accept any gem.

Defense, Dodge, or Parry?
For gear, the best choice between stats is the piece with the highest overall avoidance and/or mitigation, depending on your use of the piece and your role in the raid. But for gems, you might have your pick of defense rating, dodge rating, or parry rating to fill sockets in avoidance gear. Which is the best choice? The buffs to parry and nerfs to dodge in 3.2 changed the rule-of-thumb that maximizes avoidance:

1. Stack up to 689 defense rating (uncrittable)
2. At low gear levels (defense rating + dodge rating + parry rating < 1150 or so), just ignore additional defense and stack dodge and parry rating in a 1.88:1 ratio. (Agility can be substituted for dodge rating as desired.)
3. At higher gear levels (defense + dodge + parry > 1150 rating), gear so that your post-DR dodge and parry percentages come out as close to a 1.88:1 ratio as possible, using the formula:


Code: Select all

(character_sheet_dodge_% - 10) / (character_sheet_parry_% - 10) = 1.88


Yes, this means that gemming for parry is sometimes a good idea. Make sure you perform this check while raid buffed, including nearly-always-up buffs like the dodge rating from the Libram of Defiance.

Blue Gem Slot or Colorless Gem Slot (including all slots where the socket bonus is poor)

• [Solid Dragon's Eye] : +51 Stamina : BoP Crafted (Jewelcrafting)
• [Solid Majestic Zircon]: +30 Stamina : Crafted (Jewelcrafting)
• [Solid Stormjewel]: +30 Stamina : Fished (Dalaran Daily) Unique (Stormjewel)
• [Solid Sky Sapphire] : +24 Stamina : Crafted (Jewelcrafting)
  
  Digren says, "Jewelcrafters, use your custom gems to maximize stamina. It really doesn't matter if they go in a blue or colorless slot; just use the piece you expect to replace last. For the rest of us, put a Solid Majestic Zircon in every blue gem slot; a Solid Stormjewel is optional if convenient"

Red Gem Slot (with a good socket bonus)

• [Shifting Dreadstone] : +10 Agility and +15 Stamina : Crafted (Jewelcrafting)
• [Defender's Dreadstone] : +10 Parry Rating and +15 Stamina : Crafted (Jewelcrafting)
• [Regal Dreadstone] : +10 Dodge Rating and +15 Stamina : Crafted (Jewelcrafting)
• [Shifting Twilight Opal] : +8 Agility and +12 Stamina : Crafted (Jewelcrafting)
• [Regal Twilight Opal] : +8 Dodge Rating and +12 Stamina : Crafted (Jewelcrafting)
  
  Digren says, "Red offers gems for strength, agility, dodge, and parry. To pick between dodge (via agility) or parry, use the rule-of-thumb in the guide above. Choose agility over dodge rating for some mitigation and threat, at the cost of some avoidance. If the socket bonus is worth getting or a red gem is required to activate a meta, an agility/stamina gem is the best choice for effective health."

Yellow Gem Slot (with a good socket bonus)

• [Enduring Eye of Zul] : +10 Defense Rating and +15 Stamina : Crafted (Jewelcrafting)
• [Thick King's Amber] : +20 Defense Rating : Crafted (Jewelcrafting)
• [Enduring Forest Emerald] : +8 Defense Rating and +12 Stamina : Crafted (Jewelcrafting)
• [Thick Autumn's Glow] : +16 Defense Rating : Crafted (Jewelcrafting)
  
  Digren says, "Unless a Thick King's Amber is required to maintain 540 defense, choose the combo stamina gem for a refined balance of defense and effective health."

Meta Gem Slot

• [Austere Earthsiege Diamond] : +32 Stamina and +2% Increased Armor Value from Items : Crafted (Jewelcrafting)
• [Eternal Earthsiege Diamond] : +21 Defense Rating and +5% Shield Block Value : Crafted (Jewelcrafting)
• [Effulgent Skyflare Diamond] : +32 Stamina and Reduce Spell Damage Taken by 2% : Crafted (Jewelcrafting)
  
  Digren says, "There isn't a great avoidance option for meta slots, so pick the best effective health option, the Austere Earthsiege Diamond. Only block/trash sets should use the Eternal Earthsiege Diamond since block just doesn't scale.
  
  "The stamina and spell-damage-reduction gem has been fixed for 3.1, but most tankadins will defer to another class for spell-intensive fights. This guide doesn't cover the design of a magic-tanking gear set."

Archiving the 3.2 guide for reference.

Enchanting

Whether attained through the enchanting profession, some other trade skill, or via purchased kits, the options for enchanting are much more varied than with gems. Unfortunately the strategy is less flexible, as many slots have a hands-down best enchant. Slots without a strong contender for top enchant have greater flexiblity, such as the marginal options for the hand slot, or the trade off for mobility on boots.

Head Enchant

• [Arcanum of the Stalwart Protector] : +37 Stamina and +20 Defense Rating : Purchased (The Argent Crusade at Revered)
• [Mind Amplification Dish] : +45 Stamina and Mind Control and New Helm Graphic : BoP Crafted (Engineering)
  
  Digren says, "The engineering tinker isn't viable for tanking; any one so concerned about stamina as to give up that much defense rating wouldn't be an engineer anyway. The alternate helm graphic is perhaps its best PVE benefit. There's no excuse for using any enchant but the best."

Shoulders Enchant

• [Master's Inscription of the Pinnacle] : +60 Dodge Rating and +15 Defense Rating : BoP Crafted (Inscription)
• [Greater Inscription of the Pinnacle] : +20 Dodge Rating and +15 Defense Rating : Purchased (The Sons of Hodir at Exalted)
• [Greater Inscription of the Gladiator] : +30 Stamina and +15 Resilience Rating : Purchased (10000 Honor)
• [Lesser Inscription of the Pinnacle] : +15 Dodge Rating and +10 Defense Rating : Purchased (The Sons of Hodir at Honored)
  
  Digren says, "Inscribers, get your self-only buff here. Remember that Relics of Ulduar can be used for Sons of Hodir reputation, so reaching honored is pretty trivial. I would expect serious main tanks to be exalted and using the best option available. Note that the PVP enchant is more effective health, for those maximizing an EH set, though the resilience is significantly less good than the defense rating."

Back Enchant

• [Flexweave Underlay] : +23 Agility and Slow Fall : BoP Crafted (Engineering)
• [Enchant Cloak - Greater Agility] : +22 Agility : Crafted (Enchanting)
• [Enchant Cloak - Titanweave] : +16 Defense Rating : Crafted (Enchanting)
• [Enchant Cloak - Mighty Armor] : +225 Armor : Crafted (Enchanting)
  
  Digren says, "Greater Agility offers slightly more pure avoidance than Titanweave, plus armor for effective health and crit rating for threat. It or the engineering version is the best choice for almost every gear set. Some people may choose Mighty Armor to maximize mitigation."

Chest Enchant

• [Enchant Chest - Greater Defense] : +22 Defense Rating : Crafted (Enchanting)
• [Enchant Chest - Powerful Stats] : +10 All Stats : Crafted (Enchanting)
• [Enchant Chest - Superior Health] : +275 Health : Crafted (Enchanting)
  
  Digren says, "The defense enchant surpasses the other options, even for most effective health gear sets."

Wrists Enchant

• [Fur Lining - Stamina] : +102 Stamina : BoP Crafted (Leatherworking)
• [Enchant Bracer - Major Stamina] : +40 Stamina : Crafted (Enchanting)
• [Socket Bracer] : Prismatic Socket : BoP Crafted (Blacksmithing) Stacks with Other Enchants
  
  Digren says, "Unless you're a leatherworker, +40 stamina is king."

Hands Enchant

• [Reticulated Armor Webbing] : +885 Armor : BoP Crafted (Engineering)
• [Enchant Gloves - Major Agility] : +20 Agility : Crafted (Enchanting)
• [Heavy Borean Armor Kit] : +18 Stamina : Crafted (Leatherworking)
• [Socket Gloves] : Prismatic Socket : BoP Crafted (Blacksmithing) Stacks with Other Enchants
• [Enchant Gloves - Armsman] : +2% Threat and +10 Parry Rating : Crafted (Enchanting)
• [Glove Reinforcements] : +240 Armor : Crafted (Leatherworking)
  
  Digren says, "Those of us that remain engineers will enjoy our armor bonus. For the rest of you, the extensive glove enchant discussion has led to the following conclusions:
  
  • Of course the overvalued engineering enchant is the best option for effective health and any boss-tanking gear set.
  • The normal armor enchant hasn't been updated and is undervalued.
  • DPS players surpassing paladins on threat just hasn't happened...yet. Threat enchants are generally a waste.
  • Non-engineers who want to maximize health may want the armor kit. However, +18 stamina isn't really very good in terms of opportunity cost when compared to +20 agility. If you choose the armor kit, you should also choose to forgo socket matching and stack stamina gems.
  • The agility enchant is a great all-around option, providing avoidance, armor, and even a little threat.
  "

Waist Enchant

• [Personal Electromagnetic Pulse Generator] : Confuse Mechanicals : BoP Crafted (Engineering)
• [Eternal Belt Buckle] : Prismatic Socket : Crafted (Blacksmithing) Stacks with Other Enchants
  
  Digren says, "This prismatic socket stacks with the engineering-only waist enchants. Of those, the pulse generator has use as an add tank in some encounters (i.e. XT, Mimiron). Please note that you can put any gem in a prismatic socket, not just a prismatic gem! And of course, the gem counts toward any meta activation requirement."

Legs Enchant

• [Jormungar Leg Reinforcements] : +22 Agility and +55 Stamina : BoP Crafted (Leatherworking)
• [Frosthide Leg Armor] : +22 Agility and +55 Stamina : Crafted (Leatherworking)
• [Jormungar Leg Armor] : +15 Agility and +45 Stamina : Crafted (Leatherworking)
  
  Digren says, "Leatherworkers get a leg up with their BoP pattern, but everyone else gets the same benefit with Frosthide as the best, if expensive, leg enchant. If your legs are at least iLvl 213, you should be ashamed to still use the low-quality leg enchant."

Feet Enchant

• Enchant Boots - Greater Fortitude : +22 Stamina : Crafted (Enchanting)
• [Enchant Boots - Tuskarr's Vitality] : +15 Stamina and +8% Run Speed : Crafted (Enchanting)
  
  Digren says, "Recent talent optimizations have made it possible for more tanks to go deeper into a second tree. Even I, a long-time opponent of deep ret, have talented down to Pursuit of Justice. If you've chosen to spend your extra talent points in holy, you don't have to sacrifice much to put a little speed on your boots."

Fingers Enchant

• [Enchant Ring - Stamina] : +30 Stamina : BoP Crafted (Enchanting)
  
  Digren says, "Enchanters get their self-only benefit here."

Melee Weapon Enchant

• [Enchant Weapon - Accuracy] : +25 Hit Rating and Critical Strike Rating and Blue Glow : Crafted (Enchanting)
• [Enchant Weapon - Mongoose] : Occasionally +120 Agility and 2% Attack Speed and Electrical Glow : Crafted (Enchanting)
• [Enchant Weapon - Exceptional Agility] : +26 Agility and Green Glow : Crafted (Enchanting)
• [Enchant Weapon - Blood Draining] : Sometimes Grant Blood Reserve When Striking an Enemy, then Regain Health from Blood Reserve Stack When Below 35% Health, and Red Sparkling Flame Glow : Crafted (Enchanting)
• [Enchant Weapon - Potency] : +20 Strength and Green Glow : Crafted (Enchanting)
• [Titanium Weapon Chain] : +28 Hit Rating, Reduce the Duration of Disarm Effects by 50%, and White Glow : Crafted (Blacksmithing)
• [Enchant Weapon - Blade Ward] : Sometimes +200 Parry Rating for 10 sec and Inflict 600 to 800 Damage on Next Parry, and Red Glow : Crafted (Enchanting)
  
  Digren says, "New options have caused controversy to erupt again regarding weapon enchants. There has been extensive discussion. The changes to avoidance in 3.2 still haven't been fully explored, but preliminary analysis indicates that they change little. My conclusions are as follows:
  
  • Accuracy and Exceptional Agility are the two best static (i.e. always there) options for general use.
  • Accuracy is best if you don't have sufficient hit rating on other items and are specifically concerned about taunts failing. For your secondary threat/block value set for trash or LolPVP, Potency is probably better. The weapon chain is only for cheap people who haven't spent 30 minutes to run their Argent Tournament dailies once, then used the cash to buy Accuracy. Its disarm effect is useless and, while the hit rating is marginally better than Accuracy, Accuracy also provides the crit rating which is, on average, better than useless.
  • Exceptional Agility is great for avoidance gears sets. It provides a bit of armor and crit rating as well, so it is an all around general-purpose reliable stat. Mongoose would be similar, except scratch out the "reliable" bit. Dodge is already a roll of the dice. Mongoose sometimes adds a die but sometimes takes one away, when compared to Exceptional Agility.
  • Blood Draining, when it works, is just like having an extra HoT tick when you need it most. If you tell your healers to never put HoTs on you because you don't want to risk ticking out of AD range, then it isn't for you. Otherwise it's a quality, viable, if not reliable, emergency-style auto effect. See the Blood Draining TTL discussion and note the rule-of-thumb for when Blood Draining helps you survive. I use Blood Draining as the best pseudo effective health option.
  • Blade Ward is like Mongoose, except it procs less often, provides less threat than Potency and no benefit to taunts, and is consumed by regular parries (i.e. those caused by other parry rating) and thus gets worse as your gear gets better. Read all the way through the Blade Ward test results before considering this for your weapon."
  
  Rokkon sums up the weapon enchant options this way:
  
  • If you feel comfortable with your health pool, go agility.
  • If you feel a bit squishy, go blood draining.
  • If you have threat issues, go accuracy.
  • If you're a thrill seeker, go mongoose.
  • if you're poor, go titanium weapon chain.
  • If you're old school, go potency.

Shield Enchant

• [Enchant Shield - Defense] : +20 Defense Rating : Crafted (Enchanting)
• [Titanium Plating] : +81 Block Value : Crafted (Blacksmithing)
  
  Digren says, "Put the block value enchant on your block/trash shield, and use the defense enchant on your best shield for everything else."

great guide, helping me alot with all the new emblem gear

Ezikiel wrote:great guide, helping me alot with all the new emblem gear

Thanks! I still haven't gotten the enchant part updated for 3.3 (it's still missing all my new symbols), so I hadn't yet bumped it up to the top of the forum for review.

But... I'm open for feedback on the new 3.3 guide for:

• Content (depth and breadth of the introductory guide, coverage of enhancement options)
• Quality (accuracy of recommendations*)
• Grammar and typos
• Approach (especially my application of my tank levels to the enchant guide)

It was impossible to maintain gem and enchant guides for each level of progress, as Blizzard keeps changing things up (like adding new easy-to-reach epics or the addition of epic gems) that rendered all my old guides obsolete. I know at least for Barathorn if not the other mods, they wanted a guide that would work for players of all "levels". Now that I've defined the levels, my guide can do just that in one place.

* If you have a particular problem with one item (i.e. Why don't you recommend Berserker as a weapon enchant!!!11121!), it would be better to start a new thread about it than debate it here. More people will see and comment on it, and it will help keep this thread limited to feedback directly related to my guide. I do read and follow all other gem and enchant discussion threads.

As far as the 12 stam bonuses go, I know that helms with +12 stam is a no brainer, what about gear with 3 gem sockets?

Until I get the exalted Ashen Verdict ring, I'm still not comfortable with my hit rating (163), so I gemmed a shifting, vivid, and solid in my http://www.wowhead.com/?item=49964 as well as http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47415

On the whole, it's 10 hit and 10 agility vs 18 stam on each piece, so a net of 20 agi and 20 hit vs 36 stam.

With my current gemming and enchanting, I'm at 45149 unbuffed hp without a 258/264 stam trinket, and at this point I personally believe that just stacking stam turns me more into a mana sponge. With heroic mode or in the following wings, things may change.

Thoughs? Ideas?

For gear with three gem sockets, you should divide the socket bonus among the non-blue sockets. For example, if a piece has a red, a yellow, and blue socket, and the bonus is +9 stamina, then the bonus associated with the blue socket is nothing (since a stamina gem goes there regardless) and the bonus for the yellow and red sockets is just +4.5 stamina each. If you are a level three or four tank, you should skip such a poor bonus and just stack stamina.

In your specific situation, if you're unhappy with your hit for some reason, you could always use the hit enchant on your weapon. It has a nice glow color anyway. Also consider the taunt glyph, which is the big reason for hit anyway. Otherwise the tradeoff you made seems pretty poor in my opinion.

If you want more detailed suggestions, post in the Questions and Advice folder with a link to your armory and you might get other ideas to boost your hit (if you think it's necessary) with less of a hit on your stamina.

Given the dodge debuff in ICC what are your thoughts about gemming dodge where appropriate. Straight dodge for red or a Stalwart Ametrine for a yellow socket?

Manukai wrote:Given the dodge debuff in ICC what are your thoughts about gemming dodge where appropriate. Straight dodge for red or a Stalwart Ametrine for a yellow socket?

Already answered, a little bit down in the first post:

Digren wrote: What about Chill of the Throne a.k.a. Icecrown Radiance? Doesn't that change everything and mean we should all gear for avoidance?
Chill of the Throne changes nothing. Go read the discussion about Chill of the Throne.

Digren wrote:For gear with three gem sockets, you should divide the socket bonus among the non-blue sockets. For example, if a piece has a red, a yellow, and blue socket, and the bonus is +9 stamina, then the bonus associated with the blue socket is nothing (since a stamina gem goes there regardless) and the bonus for the yellow and red sockets is just +4.5 stamina each. If you are a level three or four tank, you should skip such a poor bonus and just stack stamina.

I added the above to the Q&A, since this might come up again.

Digren wrote: What about Chill of the Throne a.k.a. Icecrown Radiance? Doesn't that change everything and mean we should all gear for avoidance?
Chill of the Throne changes nothing. Go read the discussion about Chill of the Throne.

The last post in that thread was Nov. 12th. I was hoping some more information had been gathered as guilds get into ICC and experience this content in production.

There's not much to discuss unless it's in relation to tanking specific fights at this point, which is done in the ICC forum. Chill of the Throne, in itself, does not affect the relative value of stats, it just alters your damage intake.

Clearest and best version of your guide yet Digren. Way to go.

Of course, by your guidelines I've made several suboptimal choices I'm comfortable with. I like Armsmen on gloves because I like having a huge lead on threat. It gives me breathing room if I need to switch targets to an add or something mid fight. I come back and the boss is still firmly attached to my backside. Call it a security blanket, but it works for me.

I also think the armor enchant on the cloak - particularly the new Frost Badge cloak is ideal because you're enchanting to the strength of that item. My cloak now gives me almost 1k armor, which is juicy.

Great guide, thanks for making and updating it.

Digren wrote:Hit Rating

Hit rating provides two benefits to a paladin tank:

1. Increase to threat, though not as good as from stamina in the long term.

I think you mean strength instead of stamina, since Touched By The Light was changed in 3.3. Also, this could be noted in the Strength section.

This is aimed primarily at Theck and Meloree, but it's related to this post, so I figured I'd put it here.

We have Opportunity Cost numbers for most changes from one thing to another, the major exception is the Inscription Shoulders compared to the "PvP STA shoulder enchant".

Looking at Theck's post here, the simplistic way to do it is to compare the combined total of the Dodge Rating and Defense Rating (35 on the SoH Exalted enchant, and therefore 75 on the Scribe's) and divide it the Stamina total (30 in this case).

So assuming I'm understanding the methedology correctly, it should be 75 / 30 = 2.5 (which puts it well above the replacement point for even a Level 4 tank, but I figure it's worth mentioning).

Am I understanding and executing the process correctly?

sabedoriaclark wrote:Clearest and best version of your guide yet Digren. Way to go.

Of course, by your guidelines I've made several suboptimal choices I'm comfortable with. I like Armsmen on gloves because I like having a huge lead on threat. It gives me breathing room if I need to switch targets to an add or something mid fight. I come back and the boss is still firmly attached to my backside. Call it a security blanket, but it works for me.

I also think the armor enchant on the cloak - particularly the new Frost Badge cloak is ideal because you're enchanting to the strength of that item. My cloak now gives me almost 1k armor, which is juicy.

Thanks! I use Accuracy on my weapon even though I'm over the hit cap without it (in most gear sets) merely because I like the glow color better. =p

When I finally get the enchant section updated for 3.3, I plan to mark the armor enchant as best for effective health. When I reach a 1.4 ratio myself, I'll trade off my flexweave for armor as well.

Drowden wrote:Great guide, thanks for making and updating it.

Digren wrote:Hit Rating

Hit rating provides two benefits to a paladin tank:

1. Increase to threat, though not as good as from stamina in the long term.

I think you mean strength instead of stamina, since Touched By The Light was changed in 3.3. Also, this could be noted in the Strength section.

Doh, I totally meant strength, not just because of Touched by the Light, but because of the analysis that Theck did showing strength to be better than hit for most everyone at that time.

Actually, looking at it, that appears to be no longer true. Here's the relevant post:
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... start=1239

I'll update my text and provide a link. Thanks!

Alixander wrote:This is aimed primarily at Theck and Meloree, but it's related to this post, so I figured I'd put it here.

We have Opportunity Cost numbers for most changes from one thing to another, the major exception is the Inscription Shoulders compared to the "PvP STA shoulder enchant".

Looking at Theck's post here, the simplistic way to do it is to compare the combined total of the Dodge Rating and Defense Rating (35 on the SoH Exalted enchant, and therefore 75 on the Scribe's) and divide it the Stamina total (30 in this case).

So assuming I'm understanding the methedology correctly, it should be 75 / 30 = 2.5 (which puts it well above the replacement point for even a Level 4 tank, but I figure it's worth mentioning).

Am I understanding and executing the process correctly?

I recalculated all of the numbers I'm presenting, though they match Theck and Meloree's numbers for the items they had covered. I just forgot about the Inscription enchant. =p

Dodge and defense rating are pretty equivalent for avoidance, so the tables (actually the whole process) just lump them together as "avoidance". Then yeah, it's just avoidance sacrificed divided by stamina gained, or 75/30 = 2.5. Now that does assume the tank gets no benefit from the PVP resilience, but that's consistent with the math for the Pinnacle to Gladiator transition. A tank that was somehow under the defense minimum after giving up their existing shoulder enchant, but then becomes uncrittable through the use of the PVP enchant, actually gains more benefit from the PVP enchant and thus it is relatively more valuable.

The agility replacement math is much more complicated, since it breaks agility down into avoidance and armor components, then calculates the stamina equivalent to that armor before deriving the ratio. As I note somewhere, I'm using 12.3 armor per stamina, which is an old number that I need to fix.

I've added the line to my table. Thanks!

Macktruck wrote:As far as the 12 stam bonuses go, I know that helms with +12 stam is a no brainer, what about gear with 3 gem sockets?

Until I get the exalted Ashen Verdict ring, I'm still not comfortable with my hit rating (163), so I gemmed a shifting, vivid, and solid in my http://www.wowhead.com/?item=49964 as well as http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47415

On the whole, it's 10 hit and 10 agility vs 18 stam on each piece, so a net of 20 agi and 20 hit vs 36 stam.

With my current gemming and enchanting, I'm at 45149 unbuffed hp without a 258/264 stam trinket, and at this point I personally believe that just stacking stam turns me more into a mana sponge. With heroic mode or in the following wings, things may change.

Thoughs? Ideas?

yeah, i gem the same way. though i've gone to def/stam since i have crafted items that have 0 def rating on them. i take far less damage than the other pally that gems straight stam, and the difference in actual hp from the gems is actually quite small.

Hmm. With the growing overkill of +DEF on my gear, I am starting to consider putting the Mind Control tinker on my hat. Yes, I loose +20 DEF and gain +8 STA - and mind control I can use to toss annoying people out of Naxx, off of Ulduar, or off of Ice Crown.

Alixander wrote:This is aimed primarily at Theck and Meloree, but it's related to this post, so I figured I'd put it here.

We have Opportunity Cost numbers for most changes from one thing to another, the major exception is the Inscription Shoulders compared to the "PvP STA shoulder enchant".

So assuming I'm understanding the methedology correctly, it should be 75 / 30 = 2.5 (which puts it well above the replacement point for even a Level 4 tank, but I figure it's worth mentioning).

Am I understanding and executing the process correctly?

Yes, that's exactly right. If one of your professions is inscription, the tradeoff value for the gladiator shoulder enchant is extremely pricey.

However, if you look at it another way, Inscription nets you 40 avoidance. Blacksmithing nets you 60 stamina, as does Leatherworking and Enchanting. Jewelcrafting gets you 63 stamina. So, the opportunity cost for being an Inscriptionist against another profession is pretty high, you're giving up stamina for avoidance at a ratio of 0.66 - generally a pretty bad trade, even by avoidance-advocate standards. Whether or not you think it's worth changing is up to you and your guild.

EDIT: Given my predilection for costing everything in terms of Stamina - Inscription has a value, as a profession, of <=36 stamina (1.11 ratio or higher), as I think ToC and ICC have pretty much pushed even the die-hard avoidance advocates at least that far up the scale. Therefore, if we're talking in terms of profession perks, Inscription ranks just above herbalism and skinning, and below everything else, as a tanking profession.

EDIT2: I evidently can't get a complete cohesive thought out today. The upshot is that your net loss in health for using Inscription against another profession is 90 stamina, for a gain of 75 avoidance rating, in that you'ld be going from Gladiator enchant and a 60 stam profession (optimal setup) to Inscription with the Scribe enchant. That trade of profession+enchant has a ratio of 0.83, overall.

Meloree wrote:
Yes, that's exactly right. If one of your professions is inscription, the tradeoff value for the gladiator shoulder enchant is extremely pricey.

However, if you look at it another way, Inscription nets you 40 avoidance. Blacksmithing nets you 60 stamina, as does Leatherworking and Enchanting. Jewelcrafting gets you 63 stamina. So, the opportunity cost for being an Inscriptionist against another profession is pretty high, you're giving up stamina for avoidance at a ratio of 0.66 - generally a pretty bad trade, even by avoidance-advocate standards. Whether or not you think it's worth changing is up to you and your guild.

EDIT: Given my predilection for costing everything in terms of Stamina - Inscription has a value, as a profession, of <=36 stamina (1.11 ratio or higher), as I think ToC and ICC have pretty much pushed even the die-hard avoidance advocates at least that far up the scale. Therefore, if we're talking in terms of profession perks, Inscription ranks just above herbalism and skinning, and below everything else, as a tanking profession.

Er, how does Engineering stack up? I admit however, that my Zapmote will have to be peeled from my cold, dead hands but I am pondering dropping mining for JC

Njall wrote:Er, how does Engineering stack up? I admit however, that my Zapmote will have to be peeled from my cold, dead hands but I am pondering dropping mining for JC

Piece of cake:
JC - 63 stam
LW - 60 stam - best possible profession for resist fights.
BS/Ench/Mining - 60 stam
Alchemy - Somewhere just slightly below 60 stam, if flasked. Best possible profession for resist fights.
Engineering - A bunch of cool toys plus a 900 armor glove enchant worth ~62 stamina on pure physical encounters (against 18 stamina to wrist), of which there are approximately zero, so actual value is always less.
Inscription - ~36stam
Skinning - 0 stam
Herbalism - 0 stam

Meloree wrote:Piece of cake:
JC - 63 stam
LW/BS/Ench/Mining - 60 stam
Engineering - A bunch of cool toys plus a 900 armor glove enchant worth ~62 stamina on pure physical encounters (against 18 stamina to wrist), of which there are approximately zero, so actual value is always less.

I guess the cloak enchant doesn't count by that reckoning. Still, I do like mind control rayz

There's one untrackable benefit to being a Scribe which is almost unlimited flexibility in being able to make new glyphs. Sure, you could carry around stacks of each glyph but that's somewhat costly in terms of space. But, as a Scirbe you can just be like "BLAM! Glyph!". This still may not be worth it, but it is a beneift that's not something you can just track with numbers.

Arguably you can get the same effect from having a fully leveled Scribe there with you, but unless your guild has 2-3 that are fully leveled, you can't be sure you'll always have it available.

Another issue is the amount of money I've thrown into Inscription. As of right now I'm about 30 glyphs away from knowing every one. This is an investment of thousands and thousands of gold. Throwing that away is not something easily done. =/

Despit the pain, a small part of me is pushing to do something else, but if I did it'd be Engineering, which isn't that huge of an upgrade, as you pointed out. Whie the other five professions are bettr for tanking the "cool factor" of Engineering would make me want to go that route.

No matter what I decide, thanks for the post Meloree.

Njall wrote:I guess the cloak enchant doesn't count by that reckoning. Still, I do like mind control rayz

Unfortunately the cloak is AGI and only one more than is available via regular enchanting (the use of the slowfall aspect is less impressive since we can bubble ourselves to survive any fall). As the armor enchant for cloak gives a higher EH boost, it comes out ahead when you're pushing for your highest possible EH.

Alixander wrote:Another issue is the amount of money I've thrown into Inscription. As of right now I'm about 30 glyphs away from knowing every one. This is an investment of thousands and thousands of gold. Throwing that away is not something easily done. =/

Yeah, man, that always stings. As a newbie in 2.2, I was mining/blacksmithing, because it seemed like paladinesque professions, back when I started. In 2.3, when I started raiding and reading maintankadin, I switched to enchanting and engineering. In 2.4 when Sunwell dropped, I traded engineering for leatherworking, for drums. In 3.0, with the new profession benefits, I dropped leatherworking for blacksmithing, and just before 3.1, I dropped enchanting for jewelcrafting, because it was just too much better to pass up. Fortunately, I haven't had to change since then. But for a while the running joke was "Don't let Meloree have any patterns. He'll have new professions at the patch".

Intangible benefits are nice. I miss being an enchanter with virtually every enchant. Some things I used to have are hard to track down (shield block rating, anyone?). But intangibles might let you re-build yourself 5 minutes faster, if you need to do something wierd for a given bossfight (the first time, after that you're prepared), they'll never get you a kill that you couldn't otherwise get. Tangibles might.

It really all depends on your play level. I could not justify engineering or inscription for myself, or any of the tanks in Edge. Because I am the sort who will spend 5k to powerlevel a profession for a 3 stamina upgrade. Our bear went from JC/BS to Alch/LW entirely for Anub'arak, to make it that much easier.

"It really all depends on your play level. I could not justify engineering or inscription for myself, or any of the tanks in Edge. Because I am the sort who will spend 5k to powerlevel a profession for a 3 stamina upgrade. Our bear went from JC/BS to Alch/LW entirely for Anub'arak, to make it that much easier."

I guess it depends what you need. I use alts to provide various professions and my enchanter has most of the old school stuff.

My tank's been an Engineer from BC, even when it wasn't the absolute best profession to have. I don't mind spending cash on it if needed, but tbh a 3 stam upgrade makes no difference at all - I'd rather spend that money on getting myself or a guildie a crafted piece that will help the raid out.