Best Paladin Tank Sword: Turning Tide...

I'm confused here. Maybe someone can help me.

I go to WoWHead and sort their list of main hand protection paladin swords and guess what lands on top? The Turning Tide! I thought this was a healer weapon. Does the 520 spell damage really add that much more threat? I'd like some help understanding how they came to this result.

BTW, the second best was Life & Death followed by Broken Promise.

To put it succinctly, they are wrong. Broken Promise and Last Laugh are the best in slot tanking weapons for both warriors and paladins. You should not be using a caster weapon for tanking post-3.0.

As the the relative benefits of Broken Promise vs. Last Laugh, they are debatable, but LL is generally considered to be the best of the best in slot.

The wowhead stat ranking is questionable. It also ignores weapon dps which is important for Hammer of the Righteous. I'm pretty sure that is the main reason spell damage weapons are ranked so high.

I guess they still have SP in their list. It's weight as 20 where defense rating is weighted at 100. So 500 SP is the same as 100 defense rating to them. Yeah, not true.

Just take the spell power out. People are still having trouble realizing we do not want to pick up spell power on any of our gear anymore. Strength and BV are much better threat stats per itemization point.

Sorry for the necro, but In orgg last night a fairly decently geared pally (I consider myself of this category for a reference) Using Turning Tide, I assumed it was an ilevel thing, butupon asking him he says he gains significant Threat yet only 1percent less survivability over his shiver.....Is this just lipservice BS or is there something I am Missing?

Over shiver? I really doubt that he's gaining in threat, and he is giving up significant survivability stats.

SellassieTanks wrote:Sorry for the necro, but In orgg last night a fairly decently geared pally (I consider myself of this category for a reference) Using Turning Tide, I assumed it was an ilevel thing, butupon asking him he says he gains significant Threat yet only 1percent less survivability over his shiver.....Is this just lipservice BS or is there something I am Missing?

I suspect he is doing it wrong. He may indeed be gaining significant threat, but if he was doing 1k tps with shiver and 1.5k tps with TT, he may consider that rully gud, but most of us would consider that pretty fail.

Kind of bizarre. Shiver is 2x as much DPS as TT, so HotR would hit for peanuts ...

I doubt he's even getting more threat with Turning Tide, as he's losing a lot of white and HotR damage by going that route. TBC is over, spellpower gear for tanking is dead. If you *really* want a threat-only weapon, you should pick up a melee DPS weapon that's going to be DE'ed.

Thank you for your relpies...makes me feel like my world is still in order.

There was actually a post about this recently on :shudder: the official forums.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 1&pageNo=1

Invisusira wrote:There was actually a post about this recently on :shudder: the official forums.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 1&pageNo=1

^^
I'm on that guy's server. He's not in my guild but he's a "guild friend" so I've interacted with him a few times. The only thing we've really run together is a few AQ40 rep runs so I can't really tell if there's a huge difference based on a few 500k health boss encounters. He swears by his TT and claims there's hidden spell coefficients in all our moves that make it better. I'll have to report back here after listening to his wonky math one more time to see what his deal is.

End-game tankadins who have points in Reckoning (I'll accept it as an okay leveling talent) make me want to tear my hair out. Although, to be fair, that's not half as bad as this tankadin in my guild who didn't spec into Divine Strength. >_< He had the worst spec I've ever seen. And wouldn't listen to anything I had to say. He doesn't tank for us anymore.

But, is this part of the conundrum? I have a discussion about this the other day, that I hate sounding elitist telling people how they should play. I wish there were options and choices that were equally viable. But the more you dig into it, the more you learn; you understand that there is almost certainly one most effective way to play.

And do these people, lets call them the "proudly uninformed" (PUs for short), do these PUs confront us out of some carnal need to be individuals? To break away from the status quo and perhaps discover what we all have missed? Can you imagine the pride and accomplishment if they discovered somehow, someway, we've been doing it wrong all this time?

But, their dream is simply that, a dream. An innocent fantasy that, if it were not for the risk of spreading their misinformation to the inexperienced, we could simply chalk up to their amusing impotence and leave it at that. But we can't, can we? And this makes us into the bad guys. The status quo defending itself. Sometimes I feel like a bureaucrat, with the way I rehash the same speeches over and over again.

So I guess it is up to everyone to figure out how to deal with people like this. Me? If someone is willing to learn, I will teach them. If they are adamant that a spell-power weapon, Reckoning, and Vindication will make them into better tanks, then I say let them. And when they die, and lose threat, the raid leader will say, "Well, Solare can tank this guy."

And all of our 'nonsense' is verified.

Ulrik wrote:hidden spell coefficients in all our moves

Wow, he's an even bigger moron than I thought!

That right there is called "inventing shit to justify being different."

Solare wrote:End-game tankadins who have points in Reckoning (I'll accept it as an okay leveling talent) make me want to tear my hair out.

It's in my pure-threat spec, 3/5. Where else do the points go if you're maximizing threat? A bad tps talent is still a tps talent.

--
Meloree, <Edge>, Garona.

Yeah, there's points that need to be spent to get beyond the tier 5, and none of the choices are all that compelling. 3 points in reckoning would fit the bill for a pure threat spec.

Fridmarr wrote:Yeah, there's points that need to be spent to get beyond the tier 5, and none of the choices are all that compelling. 3 points in reckoning would fit the bill for a pure threat spec.

I would still submit that you could probably do better spec'ing DG and dropping EH for threat a bit more on your gear.

Dorvan wrote:I would still submit that you could probably do better spec'ing DG and dropping EH for threat a bit more on your gear.

I would submit that the holy paladin with 4t8 takes care of my SS needs. I would further submit that at least we could have an argument about it, and the point is not totally set in stone, unless there's math and findings that I'm not aware of.

I don't generally use a 51/20 spec, in fact it's basically only on Hodir that I switch to it, and last week I forgot and we were still fine.

I'm simply suggesting that perhaps "Reckoning makes me want to tear my hair out" and the associated rant, which implied to me that the author believed that Reckoning is not only always a bad choice, but that anyone who takes it for any reason is wrong and idiotic, may have been going overboard. Without putting too fine a point on it, I would submit that the tone of that rant may, somewhat ironically, have cast the author in the light of the very people they were railing against. And I was amused, Councillor.

--
Meloree, <Edge>, Garona.

SS from two different Paladins stack, so you should still have it on yourself whether or not a Holy Paladin is casting it on you. In terms of EH/threat tradeoff ratios, I strongly suspect that making gear alterations is likely to be better than picking up Reckoning, given that it's only 17 tps per point last I saw.

Reckoning doesn't make me tear my hair out because there's nothing hugely awesome to point those points into, but at the same time I don't really see a spec with Reckoning in it as likely to be optimal for anything.

Getting off topic, but I was under the impression that the buff stacks but the proc does not. I haven't tested since 3.1.0, though.

More tests inc, I guess.

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Meloree, <Edge>, Garona

Been extensively tested the procs stack in the sense that each paladin's shield has a separate ICD but only one shield can prevent damage at a single incident. In fact with a basic 6 second ICD you need 4 shields to be fully protected against a standard 2.4 swing(post slow) boss with no other incidental damage or two 6 second ICD shields and one 4 second ICD.

Majiben wrote:Been extensively tested the procs stack in the sense that each paladin's shield has a separate ICD but only one shield can prevent damage at a single incident. In fact with a basic 6 second ICD you need 4 shields to be fully protected against a standard 2.4 swing(post slow) boss with no other incidental damage or two 6 second ICD shields and one 4 second ICD.

Huh. You learn something new... dunno how I missed those posts. Thanks.

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Meloree, <Edge>, Garona

Meloree wrote:I'm simply suggesting that perhaps "Reckoning makes me want to tear my hair out" and the associated rant, which implied to me that the author believed that Reckoning is not only always a bad choice, but that anyone who takes it for any reason is wrong and idiotic, may have been going overboard. Without putting too fine a point on it, I would submit that the tone of that rant may, somewhat ironically, have cast the author in the light of the very people they were railing against. And I was amused, Councillor.

--
Meloree, <Edge>, Garona.

The author is also amused.

Solare wrote:The author is also amused.

Can't blame you, egg on my face. I'm not convinced, though, that it's always optimal to put up your own SS. Assuming the holy paladin keeps it up, what's the marginal benefit of a 2nd... or a third? Is it worth the GCD not spent on threat, in a threat-sensitive situation? I'm not convinced that that's always the case, nor am I convinced that choosing to use SS with DG spec allows you to significantly alter gearing to increase threat. In other words, in the all-out threat situation, you're probably not SSing yourself anyway, so that option's pretty moot.

--
Meloree, <Edge>, Garona

So you're saying i should keep myself permanently shielded, and drop those 3 points from divinity?
Is that gonna be worth it with a holy paladin on my ass 24/7?

Awyndel wrote:So you're saying i should keep myself permanently shielded, and drop those 3 points from divinity?
Is that gonna be worth it with a holy paladin on my ass 24/7?

Multiple SS stack now... they won't proc off the same hit but they no longer share the same CD.