Lord Jaraxxus -- Too Easy?

Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:08 pm

Re: Lord Jaraxxus

ydraw wrote:
Seloei wrote:Hardmodes will be harder, yes... but do you really think that a 25man 100% pug run should be able to kill a higher tier boss than ulduar, in less than an hour with no idea what they are doing? Did you pug ulduar that same way the same week it was out? Or even a Month after it was out? I am talking about the normal modes.

Am I the only person here who remembers Rage Winterchill?

As easy as Rage was, he was still a minor challenge. When my guild (at the time) first reached him, we had many deaths to the ice tombs. That damage was big and fast -- healers had to be quick. Death and decay was notoriously hard to see (though, it's pretty easy to see your health bar dropping).

A normal pug would have had trouble killing Rage, if only for the ice tombs. The death and decays would probably kill half of the pugs that were affected by it.

Of course, when people say "pug" these days... they mean 20+ people that already have the achievement. Back then, if you weren't on a super server, it wasn't even worth pugging Hyjal unless you wanted trash loot.

Joanadark

Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:35 am

Re: Lord Jaraxxus -- Too Easy?

theres also the trouble that no one would have been attuned.
The general consensus was that the first couple bosses of Hyjal were to be considered an extended reward and a break from the horror guild-breaker that was Kael Thas.

ydraw

Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:43 pm

Re: Lord Jaraxxus

Belloc wrote:
ydraw wrote:
Seloei wrote:Hardmodes will be harder, yes... but do you really think that a 25man 100% pug run should be able to kill a higher tier boss than ulduar, in less than an hour with no idea what they are doing? Did you pug ulduar that same way the same week it was out? Or even a Month after it was out? I am talking about the normal modes.

Am I the only person here who remembers Rage Winterchill?

As easy as Rage was, he was still a minor challenge. When my guild (at the time) first reached him, we had many deaths to the ice tombs. That damage was big and fast -- healers had to be quick. Death and decay was notoriously hard to see (though, it's pretty easy to see your health bar dropping).

A normal pug would have had trouble killing Rage, if only for the ice tombs. The death and decays would probably kill half of the pugs that were affected by it.

Of course, when people say "pug" these days... they mean 20+ people that already have the achievement. Back then, if you weren't on a super server, it wasn't even worth pugging Hyjal unless you wanted trash loot.

Only 1 healer had to be quick really. And running out of death and decay was easier than running out of the fire that snobolds drop.

I don't know, I found it easier to pug Rage Winterchill than I did to pug heroic Magister's Terrace. We just told people to bring their PvP trinkets and facerolled it. The hardest thing was finding 25 people who could be bothered to go to CoT. Most of these people were in guilds that couldn't kill anything past Void Reaver and Lurker, but Rage was no problem for them.

Maybe Rage was harder when you did him. I never saw it until after attunements were removed (I started playing WoW around the time of patch 2.1), and my guild was pretty bad (eg we wiped on Najentus for 3 nights before deciding to try Rage instead) and we 1 shot him, albeit with only about 8 people left alive.

What made Rage so easy was that he had hardly any health. You could lose half your raid and still kill him in 3 minutes. Northrend Beasts is a bit different in that it's a pretty long fight. There are plenty of opportunities for tards to screw up in the time it takes.

I actually tried pugging Northrend Beasts 25 last week. People had the strategy mostly right, but we failed mostly because of tanks dying too much. We twice got to Icehowl only to have him kill the tank after a ferocious butt.

Joanadark

Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:40 am

Re: Lord Jaraxxus -- Too Easy?

Hard mode is pathetically easy too. Barely any different from normal mode.

Tekkel

Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:14 am

Re: Lord Jaraxxus -- Too Easy?

Haven't done the 25 man hardmode but 10 man hm was a 1 shot as well. We 1 shot everything there minus anub.
That's the only real challenge on 10 man hm. It was nice getting some practice on that in 10 man before we're doing it 25

Markoh

Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:31 am

Re: Lord Jaraxxus -- Too Easy?

God icecrown better not be month's away, this current raid content can't last that long I don't think. If they do try and stretch it I see a hard time with lots of burnouts/quitting in the near future.

Belloc

Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:10 pm

Re: Lord Jaraxxus -- Too Easy?

Joanadark wrote:Hard mode is pathetically easy too. Barely any different from normal mode.

I don't know, I thought the portal and volcano being NPCs was a pretty interesting change. Also, the silence can kind of blow.

Then again, the group I brought to 10 man hard modes was sort of our... B-Team. I can't wait to go back with our A-Team. I have no doubt we'll clear the place.

If you have the DPS to get past Beasts, I imagine you're pretty much set for the rest of the instance.

Threatco

Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:26 pm

Re: Lord Jaraxxus -- Too Easy?

I agree. If you can do beasts. You can at least say hi to Anub.

Treck

Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:51 am

Re: Lord Jaraxxus -- Too Easy?

Joanadark wrote:Hard mode is pathetically easy too. Barely any different from normal mode.

We had no idea you had to kill whatever was spawning adds xD, this wiped us once with 6Mistresses of pain at once. Next try we got 15 infernals xD 3rd try he died

We got the vulcano down before it had time to spawn its 2nd add, so that part was even easier.
I read there was suppose to be an aditional debuff, but never really saw it.
However only differance would be the killing of portal/vulcanoes, i had read NOTHING about this tho, well now i know.

Joanadark

Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:18 am

Re: Lord Jaraxxus -- Too Easy?

Belloc wrote:
Joanadark wrote:Hard mode is pathetically easy too. Barely any different from normal mode.

I don't know, I thought the portal and volcano being NPCs was a pretty interesting change. Also, the silence can kind of blow.

Then again, the group I brought to 10 man hard modes was sort of our... B-Team. I can't wait to go back with our A-Team. I have no doubt we'll clear the place.

If you have the DPS to get past Beasts, I imagine you're pretty much set for the rest of the instance.

Everybody just switch onto the portals/volcanos. The only healer who cant cast a different school to be locked out for their heals is paladins, and they can aura mastery.

Khayne

Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:07 am

Re: Lord Jaraxxus -- Too Easy?

We couldn't kill (only used 4 tries though as it was evident from those) the beasts hard mode tonight in 10men.
Then again we were a "random raid", made of our best ret beingthe 2nd tank, and some people in raid that were new to raiding and the whole place.

We still did manage to one-shot all the normal mode bosses (only deaths were: 1 didn't move from wall-rush, i think 1 or 2 died in champs, 1 person ate wortex in wrong color and died, and 1 or 2 died on anub as someone didn't realize to move from impale).

Will be interesting to see how hard modes are once we get our better/experienced people in instead of new people with sub-3k dps.

Felkor

Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:33 pm

Re: Lord Jaraxxus -- Too Easy?

Normal modes on 10 man was pretty easy for us and we started the hard modes right after the normal clear.
The 1st encounter was a bummer for three tries or so getting away from the boss without any speed buff and ofc lost the tank, also ran into two enrages, so we didn’t start out to good.
Second boss we also wiped on like 6+ mistresses, but did anticipate that the volcanos might also be destroyable so we manage to clear him with less trouble.
The pvp encounter wasn’t really any harder than the normal 10 man and had success quickly there.
The twins on the other hand had the like of us for some reason; maybe the guys got tiered because we were well over raid time at that point in time.
We will see how it goes but for now it looks like you might need some form of dps boost and the tactics must be 100%.

Aubade

Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:02 pm

Re: Lord Jaraxxus

Steve wrote:I think there's a few things going on, I'll list them in order of relevance.

First, Blizzard is moving away from an encounter model where the primary source of difficulty is keeping the tank alive. Tank EH will not be tested as severely in Coliseum (even on hard modes) as it was in Ulduar. Tuning in this new encounter paradigm is going to be much harder because the encounter difficulty is going to derive from having to deal with multiple things occurring at the same time.

It's harder to tune making the combination of 3-4 things the right difficulty than it is to tune a boss's damage output on a tank.

Second, Ulduar was too hard -- especially at release. I think they want the vast majority of players finishing zones on normal modes. That means a Naxx level of difficulty. If the people posting on boards like these are happy with the difficulty of normal modes, they've missed the mark. If Splug and others at his skill level are enjoying their time in normal mode, the raid is tuned too hard. Normal mode should be tuned in a way that makes the top 5% start looking around for another game to play.

Third, there needs to be a loot reset before Icecrown. The expansion cycle is so much longer than raid roster turnover rate that you need a gear reset every tier.

Normal mode raids need to be that gear reset.

I 100% disagree with this.

fafhrd

Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:09 pm

Re: Lord Jaraxxus -- Too Easy?

DO NOT start that argument again. We had a good 3-5 pages of people who disagreed with that post.