Gear check on heroic 10 ToC?

just wondering what sort of gear you folks had when you did the heroic version. After finishing a regular 25, we wanted to check the heroic 10 mode. I would say we were mostly in uldy10 gear, with the odd emblem pieces here and there but the Beasts wiped our faces (Worms spawned before we could kill gormok)

So yeah, just wondering what kind of gear sets you were all wearing by the time you did the heroic version. thanks

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=The+Venture+Co&n=Zereena

About half ulduar 10/25 hard gear, some ulduar 25 normal gear, some ToC 25 normal gear :o Was mostly an easy clear other than a lot of tuning on anub (~10 wipes to him).

In just Uld10 normal gear I'd imagine it would be a fair bit harder - everything should still be doable though, with anub's gear checks being the hardest to overcome.

Skill plays a large part, but DPS has to be huge. Normal mode 10-man Ulduar gear is fine for normal mode ToC, but it is nowhere near cutting it for hard modes. Get some Ulduar-25 gear, Ulduar-10 hard mode gear, or lots of 10/25-man ToC gear. Another 2-3 weeks of farming ToC should put most people in a good place to begin hard modes in earnest.

Remember, hard mode ToC is tuned for full/near-full normal mode ToC gear.

Disagree - at best, 25% of your dps comes from gear. My alt warlock who only pugs 25mans, and has all of one item from it (8.5 legs) easily satisfies the dps requirements for 10man heroic, benching somewhere around 5500 dps on a target dummy.

When we were doing heroic 10man toc with mains, the only real dps stressing was done on beasts. We killed Gormok about 30 seconds before the Worms were supposed to spawn, lost one dps on the worms, had icehowl charge and hit another dps, and still killed Icehowl before he enraged.

Gear for tanks is almost mandatory, but otherwise, dps and healing requirements are almost certainly fillable without better gear.

Also, your tank gear is a fair bit better than mines on my pally alt and I've tanked 10man heroic Anub with no problems.

Our mains are in full ulduar25 + HM gear, and a few items off ToC25 and we walked through everything but Anub. Our alts went in because we had nothing to do and we thought it would be rough, but it wasn't. Most of our alts are mostly ulduar10 + a few ulduar25 pieces. Our alt DPS run about 4500 to 5000 DPS. We had a few wipes on NB, and FC, but LJ and TV were one shotted. We totally failed on Anub though. The damage to the tanks was too high.

We ventured into ToC 10 Heroic with mostly 226-245 gear. Little HM Uld 10/25 gear. Beasts will be the biggest gear check for your dps, making it out of the phase without BL should be your goal.

We even did it with a slightly undergeared feral tank, but real pro healers and dps.

Would have cleared had we not made it to Anub toward the end of raid time. He'll die this week for us.

I can see where uld 10 gear only would make it a lot more challenging.

Kishandra wrote:Disagree - at best, 25% of your dps comes from gear. My alt warlock who only pugs 25mans, and has all of one item from it (8.5 legs) easily satisfies the dps requirements for 10man heroic, benching somewhere around 5500 dps on a target dummy.

When we were doing heroic 10man toc with mains, the only real dps stressing was done on beasts. We killed Gormok about 30 seconds before the Worms were supposed to spawn, lost one dps on the worms, had icehowl charge and hit another dps, and still killed Icehowl before he enraged.

Gear for tanks is almost mandatory, but otherwise, dps and healing requirements are almost certainly fillable without better gear.

Also, your tank gear is a fair bit better than mines on my pally alt and I've tanked 10man heroic Anub with no problems.

Remove your personal bias from the equation, please. Skill is the most important factor, yes, which is precisely why you should pay more attention to the original post. Hard mode skilled players, even in 10-man groups, are not running around in "mostly uldy10 gear." Therefore, unless they improve greatly in skill, the biggest improvements they see will, in fact, come from gear.


On a side-note, I'd like to see how you are putting out 5500 dps on a boss level targeting dummy with the gear description you provided. Targeting dummy implies that you are operating on a solo basis (no raid buffs). If you're putting out 5500 dps on a targeting dummy, you'd be doing, what, 6500-7000+ in a raid? I'm not exactly buying the account that you provided, but I'll let that go for now.

I'll finish by saying that your group is not the norm. The majority of groups would not have the DPS required to kill Icehowl after losing two dps. The fact that yours does shows that you are not qualified to post in this thread. You are an over-skilled and over-geared player giving advice to someone trying to kill a ToC hard mode while wearing mostly ulduar 10 gear. Extrapolate a little bit and figure out why your advice wouldn't be appropriate.

Zeruvar, I mean no disrespect to you or your raid with my previous post. I was simply providing context.

Keep in mind that the requirements for Heroic ToC-10, gear or otherwise, are quite high. You'd be better off working on heroic modes in 10-man Ulduar (and finishing Vezax and Yogg) before considering anything in Heroic ToC-10. The hard modes in Ulduar will certainly develop your raiding skills, which are very much put to the test in heroic ToC.

I interpreted the nature of the question to be "hey, is this doable in 10man gear."

And my answer to it is absolutely, it's doable. I used examples to illustrate how loosely tuned the enrage timer is in 10man - for a group who barely downed 25man Icehowl after he enraged at 10%. Now obviously, after wiping a bunch of times to the heroic 10s, the OP's 10-man geared group isn't capable of downing the beasts currently. On the other hand, again, I interpreted the question as to "should we simply give up/wait until better gear, or are they defeatable with the gear that we have" - it's doable, just need to up the skill factor, which may or may not be easier than simply getting more gear and outgearing the place.

As for my warlock, the 5500 run was about 2 min of me beating on the level 80 dummy with only curse of elements on it (my own.) No real difference for casters except the hit required vs the heroic dummy, and I had enough to be capped with a draeni and imp ff or misery. I have no problems breaking 7k on patchwerk, but for beasts, my dps is actually down to ~4500 due to movement, waiting, and various target switches. I have 2x ilvl 232 t9 pieces, and a 245 emblem ring, along with the usual conqueror/crafted emblem tier tokens.

They're geared the same way everything else is: for that content's ilevel.

Code: Select all

Naxx 10    Ulduar 10       ToC 10      Heroic ToC 10
        ->           -> Uld 10 Hard ->  Uld 25 Hard  -> Heroic ToC 25
Heroics     Naxx 25      Ulduar 25         ToC 25

If you have players of exceptional skill, you can obviously beat harder content with lesser gear. However, the above is Blizz's "gear progression" level in terms of what they expect the average player to be using.

Kishandra wrote:I interpreted the nature of the question to be "hey, is this doable in 10man gear."

And my answer to it is absolutely, it's doable. I used examples to illustrate how loosely tuned the enrage timer is in 10man - for a group who barely downed 25man Icehowl after he enraged at 10%. Now obviously, after wiping a bunch of times to the heroic 10s, the OP's 10-man geared group isn't capable of downing the beasts currently. On the other hand, again, I interpreted the question as to "should we simply give up/wait until better gear, or are they defeatable with the gear that we have" - it's doable, just need to up the skill factor, which may or may not be easier than simply getting more gear and outgearing the place.

As for my warlock, the 5500 run was about 2 min of me beating on the level 80 dummy with only curse of elements on it (my own.) No real difference for casters except the hit required vs the heroic dummy, and I had enough to be capped with a draeni and imp ff or misery. I have no problems breaking 7k on patchwerk, but for beasts, my dps is actually down to ~4500 due to movement, waiting, and various target switches. I have 2x ilvl 232 t9 pieces, and a 245 emblem ring, along with the usual conqueror/crafted emblem tier tokens.

Well, the warlock stuff makes a lot more sense, then.

But Beasts, loosely tuned as it is, is still tight enough that you need a balanced group that can put out 4k per dps, minimum. That's cutting it close. Looking at the OP's gear and relative skill level (hasn't cleared Auriaya in 25 or Vezax in 10, no hard modes), I was making a slightly more in-depth judgement call about his gear and skill level. So, your post was definitely correct for a group putting everything in, and my post was more tailored to what I saw his group as being.

Sorry for being a dick, I don't know what was wrong with me.