Stamina Vs Avoidance

i am sorry but i dont understand this "debate". imo there is no reason not to run 10 man naxx, sarth no adds is complete joke, vault provides you with some gear for no effort as well, for badges you can get tier etc etc.

i can tell you are putting effort into your chara but imo in a very bad place. you justyfing here your gear selection when you could be running heroics (some are really easy, some to be avoided at first), with semi retarded people you can do 10 man naxx.

and liek i said, better gear is better gear. it has both, more avoidance and more hp. and yes, you can think abouzt using stam or def meta, pure stam or some avoidance gems etc but those are so minor changes really.

the truth is, i had your hp in my first heroics i ran, in full sunwell/BT with def gems and as far as i remember the avoidance on that gear was pretty nice. fact is, stam is atm really good stat.

it was said and i will repeat it, atm hardest hits come from spells, including heroics, only few few physical hard hits (hateful strike). so again, stam helps more than avoidance.

but you can go play and get some nice gear or you can continue here fighting for what?
_________________

I use my stamina set for things like heroics, things that stun me, things where I can't dodge e.g spider boss in Naxx. Health is 28.7k now with 50% pure avoidance

In my avoidance set I am around 25.5k health and I think getting close to 57% pure avoidance. I should be able to get back to 60% (BT days) if I ever get the items I want. I usually stagger my two dodge trinkets so for the first 40 seconds of the fight I have 5% - 7% more avoidance and then every two minutes after that. Really helps at the start, because healers need to get into the groove

I think you should look at what the boss does. If the boss hits you for 25k a pop then stacking stamina isn't going to do much. You can't get to 50k health raid buffed to be able to survive two hits so in that situation rather go for avoidance after you are over the maximum damage the boss can do to you in one hit, e.g Patchwerk OT.

I also use my avoidance set when tanking Malygos 25 after the MT goes pop. In the situations when I take over from a pop I activate both my trinkets so that the healers have time to stabalize. My trinkets are macrod on my concecration
_________________
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Whisperwind&n=Supai

In my opinion, people do put way too much emphasis on health. Yes, it's important to have a certain minimum amount and in pugs it's probably better to have better gear than what you may need if you were running with guildies, but people saying you need X amount of health or you're doomed to fail are just wrong.

I hit 80 5 days after expansion release and I started doing heroics in my Sunwell gear. I didn't even bother re-enchanting or regemming. I was very much crittable and had just over 20k health. On guild heroics, in which i had no previous experience tanking (I didn't even run the normal versions while leveling) we steamrolled the content in every heroic with little to no issues in any of them, even the "harder" ones.

When we had all 25 man content cleared, I had ~24k unbuffed health and was not block capped. I was and still am the MT. Granted, with that amount of health on fights like Malygos i would damn near get one shot when he landed, but we made it through.

I'm now sitting at ~28k health unbuffed, and that's thanks to the extra 2% stam from the patch. However, if you look at my armory, you'll see i put a pretty big priority on avoidance. Because of this and being block capped, even with relatively low BV compared to similarly geared tankadins, I am the prefered tank by my guilds healers because I am so easy to heal, much more so than our druid and warrior tanks.

TL:DR All you need is ~24-25k unbuffed health to clear ALL current content in WotLK. Avoidance IS more important than massive health pools and I have the healer backup to prove it.
_________________


One of these days I'll actually update my sig.

While I'm in here - the title of this thread makes me grind my teeth. You don't have to choose one or the other, and for the most part the two are going to be correlated anyway.

It's like drawing the battle lines on "Food versus Water".
_________________
"Almost silent, but watchful and helpful."

To get a little back on track, I think the OP and later Isetnefret were both stating the opinion of PUG's looking for tanks is that "moar helth = tankspot", and asking if there was any merit to this.

I think the general consensus is NO, but...Health does matter, and no individual is going to change the opinion of the LFG queue.

If I had to boil down my opinion of the matter, it would be find your own healer, find out what he/she needs from a tank, and do that. Your time in LFG will decrease to 10 minutes to fill the DPS slots, and you will gear up so quickly that the argument of health or avoidence will be moot, as you will have plenty of both in your leet epix.

P.S. It's ironic that the same people that are saying "you only have 20K health, you can't tank h VH" are usually the ones putting out 800 DPS. It's interesting that they consider themselves tank experts when they have yet to master their own class. This is again the reason I say get your healer, and form your own group. I have no trouble replacing a DPS who has a bad attitude.
_________________

Honestly, make your own goals and make your own groups. HP are good. Avoidance is good. Mitigation (BR/BV) is good. IMO, Avoidance & Block > HP as long as you have a solid set of HP (Even on Malygos, I don't go with more than 29k unbuffed HP because it's only ever an issue if he gets a spark, in which case I bubble wall and yell at the dps/dks). I'm more of a fan of avoidance, though don't underestimate reflective damage and threat, which avoidance reduces.


As for trouble finding groups, make your own. Then you can be the one telling people "no you can't come with BC-level spell/attack power." Half of the people saying you aren't "good/geared" enough are the ones you don't want to group with anyway. They still think res is a tanking stat.
_________________
Agergadin
Happy Death Day
Mal'Ganis

For guild runs, I actually prefer to reserve a spot for a DPS only doing 600-700DPS in a heroic.

They obviously need the drops.

The reason I don't go looking for stamina/health is something Arcand touched on. It's usually found co-existing with good avoidance gear.

Why am I posting here instead of running heroics? My boss could care less if I read a forum at work. Playing WoW on the job would get me fired, probably.....she plays Age of Conan after all...

There's a lot of good info on this forum, lots of good advice. That's why I was kind of shocked when people pointed out that someone wearing mostly gear from heroics isn't geared well enough to do heroics.

Obviously......
_________________

There is no reason why a dps should be in the 600-800 range without gross negligence on their part. There's a difference between needing gear and using the same gear you leveled with in outlands to run wotlk heroics. There are normal instances available that are tuned for people who don't put the least effort into their character's performance, but heroics are not for them.
_________________