Avenging Wrath change

Sanctified Wrath

Protection: Now causes Judgment to generate 2 Holy Power instead of 1 while Avenging Wrath is active. but the cooldown is only reduced by 50%.



Does this makes SW more viable for Prot? or is it still DivPurp for max SoTR uptime and most solotank content and HA for a 2nd Shieldwall and Bosses where we switch tanks (to maximise SoTR uptime while tanking).

Still DivPurp. The CD on Avenging Wrath is too long to make it of any real use like that. It could be a good dps talent though if you're not worried about SotR uptime.

If I'm doing the maths right that'll get us 100% SotR coverage from SW at 50% haste without GC procs.
I think it'll make SW an option for some fights 100% SotR for 30 sec plus 20% increased healing received would be nice for P3 Lie Shen.

Well, this is becoming either

a) Random procs, highest uptime

b) Shorter cooldown, shorter duration

c) Longer cooldown, longer duration

A bit like Shammies and their Fire Elemental Glyph?

Lessee... Let's assume 0% haste for a moment.

HA: Lasts 18 seconds. During these 18 seconds, we'll press CS 4 times, and J 2.66 times on average. This would generate 13.33 extra HoPo per use, or 6.66 extra HoPo per minute.

SW: Lasts 30 seconds. During these 30 seconds, we'll press J 10 times and CS 5 times. This would generate 25 total HoPo per use. Normally, in that 30 second timespawn, we'd press CS 6.66 times and J 4.44 times on average, so we'd generate 11.11 total HoPo. Therefor, SW would generate 13.88 extra HoPo per use, or 4.62 HoPo/minute.

HA also buffs the HoPo from GC, while our SW rotation actually reduces the number of GC procs while increasing the chance we waste procs from avoidance. Ergo, not only does HA generate more HoPo per minute, it also generates more HoPo per use.



To make sure Haste doesn't mess things up too much, let's check the other end of the spectrum, 50% haste:

HA: Lasts 18 seconds. During these 18 seconds, we'll press CS 6 times, and J 4 times. This would generate 20 extra HoPo per use, or 10 extra HoPo per minute.

SW: Lasts 30 seconds. During these 30 seconds, we'll press J 15 times and CS 7.5 times on average. This would generate 37.5 total HoPo per use. Normally, in that 30 second timespawn, we'd press CS 10 times and J 6.66 times on average, so we'd generate 16.66 total HoPo. Therefor, SW would generate 20.83 extra HoPo per use, or 6.94 HoPo/minute.

Again, HA also buffs the HoPo from GC, while our SW rotation actually reduces the number of GC procs while increasing the chance we waste procs from avoidance. Ergo, not only does HA generate more HoPo per minute, it also generates more HoPo per use.



So, with a lower cooldown and generating a higher SotR uptime per use, HA clearly beats SW around.

Sagara wrote:
b) Shorter cooldown, shorter duration

c) Longer cooldown, longer duration

Ignoring GC procs I think both HA and SW will give 100% SotR coverage for 30 sec at 50% haste.

I've probably calculated this wrong so corrections would be appreciated.

HA
5 out of every 9 of our abilities generate holy power giving us 0.555 hp/s
0.5555 x 3 hp during HA = 1.666 hp/s
1.666 x 18 sec = 30 sec of SotR coverage.

SW
Changes our rotation to J-CS-x repeat, with Judgement giving 2 hp that works out to exactly 1 hp/s or 30 sec of SotR.

I'm not sure how to deal with GC procs but assume they should be equal for both talents.

I think it'll mostly come down to which talent lines up better with boss phases and possibly how much magic dmg we're taking, SW's healing bonus been fairly nice for heavy magic dmg phases.

Edit: bah typing on a smartphone is slow...

How does HA increase our GC proc rate?

daishan wrote:I'm not sure how to deal with GC procs but assume they should be equal for both talents.

They're not!

HA causes every AS+ to generate 3 HP, not 1 HP.

They still only generate 1 HP under SW. Also, we'll press CS less often, so we get less GC procs from there. In addition, we only have 1 filler per 4 GCDs, rather than 4 fillers per 9 GCDs, so the chance that we're wasting GC procs from avoidance is quite realistic.

Without the GC procs, SW would net out very slightly in HoPo generation per use (HA would clearly win in total HoPo generation). With so much as a single GC proc under HW, or a single GC proc wasted to SW, HW wins out per use.

Of course that doesn't consider the healing received buff, which would make SW more valuable against Lei Shi.

Thels wrote:HA causes every AS+ to generate 3 HP, not 1 HP.

/facepalm

Ye kind of forgot about that

Edit: Any idea on the dps gains from each talent?

daishan wrote:

Thels wrote:HA causes every AS+ to generate 3 HP, not 1 HP.

/facepalm

Ye kind of forgot about that

There are also other problems with your math.

For one, you forgot that we still press CS during SW, just not as often. At 50% haste, during SW, you generate 30 HoPo from J, and 7.5 HoPo from CS, for 37.5 HoPo, or 37.5 seconds of SotR uptime (and then some, as we'll continue to generate HoPo during those last 7.5 seconds of SotR coverage).

Secondly, While you calculated the amount of HoPo we generated during HA (30 HoPo for 30 seconds is correct), we should include the HoPo generated during the following 12 seconds, so we consider the same timespawn per use for HA and SW. That would be another 4 from CS and 2.66 from J, for a total of 36.66 HoPo, or 36.66 seconds of SotR uptime (again, we'll continue to generate HoPo during these last seconds).



What I'm more interested in, is the affect this'll have on DPS. I like to open with AW+HA for some solid threatbuilding, as well as mitigation as the healers are waking up/getting to their spots. I kinda doubt that SW will overtake that, but don't have the numbers to back that up.

Thels wrote:For one, you forgot that we still press CS during SW, just not as often. At 50% haste, during SW, you generate 30 HoPo from J, and 7.5 HoPo from CS, for 37.5 HoPo, or 37.5 seconds of SotR uptime (and then some, as we'll continue to generate HoPo during those last 7.5 seconds of SotR coverage).

Thx for cleaning up my dodgy maths.

How do you get 30 HoPo from J in the 30 sec of SW?
Surely at 50% haste during SW, J drops down to a 3 sec cd, meaning we use it every 3rd gcd or 10 times in 30 sec, it gives 2 HoPo per cast so 20 HoPo during SW not 30?

How do you get 30 HoPo from J in the 30 sec of SW?
Surely at 50% haste during SW, J drops down to a 3 sec cd, meaning we use it every 3rd gcd or 10 times in 30 sec, it gives 2 HoPo per cast so 20 HoPo during SW not 30?

SW gives Judgment a 3 second cooldown, which 50% haste would reduce to 2 seconds, wouldn't it?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but: During SW with 50% Haste you'd have J at 2 second CD, and CS at 3 second CD, so you'd be casting J every 2 GCDs and CS every 4 (pushing back because 2 HoPo from J is better than 1 HoPo and chance at GC proc from CS).

http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=53376

"Protection
Reduces the cooldown of _Judgment by 50%_ and causes Judgment to generate one additional Holy Power. Avenging Wrath also increases healing received by 20%."

J starts at a 6 sec gcd 50% haste gets down to 4.5 sec then a further 50% reduction will get it down to 3 sec, unless I'm been daft?

The 50% reduction from Sanctified Wrath is a direct 50% reduction, not a haste effect. (50% Haste allows you to cast 50% more attacks in the same time; 50% cooldown reduction allows you to cast twice as much.)

Judgement: 6 seconds
Judgement with SW: 3 seconds
Judgement with 50% haste: 4 seconds
Judgement with SW and 50% haste: 2 seconds

(I do hope I'm getting the way Haste works right, or I'll look like an idiot.)

Meh think I'll give up posting while at work....

As far as I know, KysenMurrin is right. Though, if he was wrong, then that would only be further into HA's benefit.