Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Looks like it was mostly CS pushback:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4nuvqbvazvjk0 ... .html?dl=0

ok, i got a question... so our best stat is mastery, right? also haste seems to work best at a rate of 1.7-1.8 mastery for every haste, right? but at what point should we start going that way? once we reach 50% mastery?

I don't think we really know yet. The problem is that unless you have ideal gear, you probably have to gem mastery just to get to that 1.8:1 ratio. The way to check would be to run a few more of those reforge plots for much lower gear levels - i.e. average ilvls of 500, 520, or 540 to see if that 1.8:1 ratio stays the same, or if it changes.

Extermi wrote:I am wondering if taking e.g. SS_SW_Sera how much DPS can be squeezed out in comparison when SoT is used e.g. in an off-tanking situation when the SoL heals are not needed. This could be a fairer comparison for that case.

Sorry to interrupt the stat weight discussion. I've been working on minor tweaks to the Max DPS APL, and to better answer the above question, but every time I'm about finished they buff various abilities leading me to re-test. I'm going to put up my most recent results from Simcraft 602-5 (build level 19034), realizing that things may still be in a state of flux. These APLs also don't have the "wait" line for CS or J that Theck is working on. We're also at much lower level of haste here, so we'll have to test if the "waits" are needed to smooth HPG across the board.

All of these runs use glyphs alabaster_shield/focused_shield/final_wrath and use the SW talent, since it's been simming the highest dps. The baseline default APL I'm using also uses SS, LH, and Sera as talents. All were done against the T17M TMI boss and using Theck's default gear set, posted at the beginning of this thread.

Here's the abbreviations I'm using in the names of the APLs:

• SS_SW_Sera_Default: This is our default survival APL when using SS, SW, LH, and Sera. It also uses SoI not SoT.
• SS_SW_Sera_Default_T: This is the default APL as above except using SoT, no other rotational changes.
• MD_T_Sera: "MD" is short for the "MaxDPS" APL, while the "T" means we're using truth and "Sera" is Seraphim
• MD_TR_EmpS: Again "MD" is short for the "MaxDPS" APL, while "TR" is SoT and SoR while using EmpS. The other EmpS APLs I didn't change the name from "T" to "TR", but they're using SoT and SoR as well.
• HPG>ES: These APLs are using the ES talent and placing it just below HoPo generators in the APLs.
• eSS: These APLs are only using SS in empty GCDs, last on the APL.
• FW>A: These APLs place HW (with SW talented) on the top of the APL during the last 20% of boss health (since Final Wrath is glyphed).
• HWSera: These APLs place HW (with SW talented) on the top of the APL during Sera.
• jTRd: This APL puts Judgment ahead of CS if either of the EmpS buffs have run out. Trying to increase uptime slightly

Results:


Full Results
Import Profile

The default APL gives us a baseline for DPS using Sera and SoI. Just switching to SoT, doing nothing else differently, I'm seeing SS/SW/Sera beating the EmpS "TR" APLs, even with several minor optimizations. Each of the optimizations I was testing before still seem to provide some benefit, though I just realized I didn't test moving HoW up in the APL this time. Also, HW>All during Sera and/or Final Wrath is showing mild improvement for either set of talents. Finally, prioritizing J over CS when one of the EmpS buffs falls off did give a slight increase (splitting hairs a bit, but why not). So with that in mind, the highest dps APL I've managed so far for either Sera or EmpS is:

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actions.max_dps=potion,name=draenic_armor,if=buff.holy_avenger.react|buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=60
# This section covers off-GCD spells.
actions.max_dps+=/holy_avenger
actions.max_dps+=/seraphim
actions.max_dps+=/divine_protection,if=time<5|!talent.seraphim.enabled|(buff.seraphim.down&cooldown.seraphim.remains>5)
actions.max_dps+=/guardian_of_ancient_kings,if=time<5|(buff.holy_avenger.down&buff.shield_of_the_righteous.down&buff.divine_protection.down)
actions.max_dps+=/ardent_defender,if=time<5|(buff.holy_avenger.down&buff.shield_of_the_righteous.down&buff.divine_protection.down&buff.guardian_of_ancient_kings.down)
actions.max_dps+=/eternal_flame,if=buff.eternal_flame.remains<2&buff.bastion_of_glory.react>2&(holy_power>=3|buff.divine_purpose.react|buff.bastion_of_power.react)
actions.max_dps+=/eternal_flame,if=buff.bastion_of_power.react&buff.bastion_of_glory.react>=5
actions.max_dps+=/shield_of_the_righteous,if=(holy_power>=5|buff.divine_purpose.react|talent.holy_avenger.enabled)&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>5)
actions.max_dps+=/shield_of_the_righteous,if=buff.holy_avenger.remains>time_to_hpg&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>time_to_hpg)
# GCD-bound spells start here
actions.max_dps+=/avengers_shield,if=buff.grand_crusader.react&active_enemies>1&!glyph.focused_shield.enabled
actions.max_dps+=/hammer_of_the_righteous,if=active_enemies>=3
actions.max_dps+=/holy_wrath,if=talent.sanctified_wrath.enabled&(buff.seraphim.react|(glyph.final_wrath.enabled&target.health.pct<=20))
actions.max_dps+=/judgment,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&(buff.maraads_truth.down|buff.liadrins_righteousness.down)
actions.max_dps+=/crusader_strike
actions.max_dps+=/judgment
actions.max_dps+=/avengers_shield,if=active_enemies>1&!glyph.focused_shield.enabled
actions.max_dps+=/holy_wrath,if=talent.sanctified_wrath.enabled
actions.max_dps+=/avengers_shield,if=buff.grand_crusader.react
actions.max_dps+=/execution_sentence
actions.max_dps+=/holy_wrath,if=glyph.final_wrath.enabled&target.health.pct<=20
actions.max_dps+=/avengers_shield
actions.max_dps+=/seal_of_truth,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&!seal.truth&buff.maraads_truth.remains<cooldown.judgment.remains
actions.max_dps+=/seal_of_righteousness,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&!seal.righteousness&buff.maraads_truth.remains>cooldown.judgment.remains&buff.liadrins_righteousness.down
actions.max_dps+=/lights_hammer
actions.max_dps+=/holy_prism
actions.max_dps+=/consecration,if=target.debuff.flying.down&active_enemies>=3
actions.max_dps+=/hammer_of_wrath
actions.max_dps+=/consecration,if=target.debuff.flying.down
actions.max_dps+=/holy_wrath
actions.max_dps+=/seal_of_truth,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&!seal.truth&buff.maraads_truth.remains<buff.liadrins_righteousness.remains
actions.max_dps+=/seal_of_righteousness,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&!seal.righteousness&buff.liadrins_righteousness.remains<buff.maraads_truth.remains
actions.max_dps+=/sacred_shield
actions.max_dps+=/flash_of_light,if=talent.selfless_healer.enabled&buff.selfless_healer.stack>=3

Again, the CDs and EF could/should be taken out, but shouldn't be hurting anything in the runs I did above. Let me know if anyone sees anything amiss or has other suggestions.

The HotR line should probably be back down with the first CS line, I would think. HotR's damage is pretty weak.

If you want to split hairs even further, I think you could probably eke out a slight improvement with your jTRd line by adding seal conditionals. For example,

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/judgment,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&((buff.maraads_truth.down&seal.truth)|(buff.liadrins_righteousness.down&seal.righteousness))

In theory that should get rid of some edge cases where you prioritize Judgment while e.g. Maraad's Truth is down but Seal of Righteousness is still active because you haven't had a chance to swap yet.

So it looks like Seraphim w/ SoT is still better than Empowered Seals for DPS, making it sort of questionable whether Empowered Seals even has a niche for us. Part of me is happy about that (because I don't want to bother with seal twisting), but part of me is disappointed because it means Empowered Seals really isn't properly balanced.

I re-ran your sim with a few extra actors to see how HS performs w/ SoT as well. The results puzzle me though:

http://gyazo.com/e10f50bc94c7ac0b2a07efab6a4604f2


If this is to be believed, HS does better with the regular APL than with the max_dps APL? I have to leave shortly though, so I don't have time to pore over it and see if I screwed anything up. Here's the text of the simulate tab, the actors I've added are at the end:
http://pastebin.com/gPewgF6M

Also, quick comment from looking closely at the APLs (while checking to see if I made any obvious errors in the above):

In the default APL, we have:

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actions+=/shield_of_the_righteous,if=(holy_power>=5|buff.divine_purpose.react|incoming_damage_1500ms>=health.max*0.3)&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>5)


It occurred to me that the divine_purpose portion doesn't really need to be limited by the seraphim lockout conditional, since we can't use DP for seraphim anyway. This probably causes us to sit on (and potentially waste) DP procs during the lockout period. The upside is that we may delay some of those procs so that they benefit from Seraphim - that could be a DPS increase, but probably not helpful for TMI.

I'm proposing the following alternatives. The first just splits the DP portion off into its own line:

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actions+=/shield_of_the_righteous,if=buff.divine_purpose.react
actions+=/shield_of_the_righteous,if=(holy_power>=5|incoming_damage_1500ms>=health.max*0.3)&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>5)


Note that this is equivalent to

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actions+=/shield_of_the_righteous,if=buff.divine_purpose.react|)(holy_power>=5|incoming_damage_1500ms>=health.max*0.3)&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>5))

but a little easier to read. I prefer multiple lines with simple conditionals if they're entirely independent.

The next alternative is to try to game DP to delay it if we're likely to cast Seraphim before it expires.

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actions+=/shield_of_the_righteous,if=buff.divine_purpose.react&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|buff.divine_purpose.remains<cooldown.seraphim.remains)
actions+=/shield_of_the_righteous,if=(holy_power>=5|incoming_damage_1500ms>=health.max*0.3)&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>5)

There's some ambiguity about the last conditional there - for example, technically we probably want a buffer of ~1-2 seconds, so we might want to use buff.divine_purpose.remains<(cooldown.seraphim.enabled+X), where X is 1 or 2 or whatever we choose.

There's also the obvious question of whether this is smart - it could be a small DPS gain but a large TMI loss (since those 6 seconds before Seraphim are already dangerous), at which point we'd prefer to go with the first setup. Will try to sim both of these and see what works best.

Doesn't appear there's a big difference here. I'm going to go with the simplest solution, which is just separating DP usage out into its own line without worrying about delaying it for Seraphim (the ~4 DPS gain, which is within error, is not worth up to 1k of TMI loss).

This may be a little off topic, but I was wondering about the value of stamina at L90. I read the Icy Veins prot warrior guide for 6.0 and it said stamina was the worst stat for survivability and that just sounded wrong (it repeated the old canard about being a mana sponge). Am I reading the lastest Sacred Duty TMI results correctly as implying stamina is the best stat for survivability for prot paladins? (I know warriors are not paladins.)

Intuitively, I would expect that because (a) stamina is moving from 14 hp to 60 per point (or something); (b) it seems health has been squished more at L90 gear than damage (the big health pools promised are coming at L100) - at least in pvp and many PVE encounters, things seem to have become very bloody with high damage and healing relative to health; (c) stamina was never bad anyway.

I know some players are saying damage is trivial post squish and no doubt it is for heroic raiders farming whatever. But I'm seeing PUG tanks (probably recently leveled) dropping against Ordos and later SoO whereas before they did not etc, and I suspect stamina trinkets/gems/flasks might not be wasted on them.

theckhd wrote:I'm going to go with the simplest solution, which is just separating DP usage out into its own line without worrying about delaying it for Seraphim (the ~4 DPS gain, which is within error, is not worth up to 1k of TMI loss).

Looks good. I had tried separating out the divine_purpose portion as well, way back (end of this post), so thanks for updating that.

theckhd wrote:If you want to split hairs even further, I think you could probably eke out a slight improvement with your jTRd line by adding seal conditionals.

I actually had the same thought and tried that at one point as well. It provided essentially identical results, and I think I realized why: there's still a Judgment line in the APL before any seal switching. So if there are niche cases where Judgment comes off CD before we've switch to the right seal, we'd actually have to modify both the Judgment line before CS as well as the regular Judgment line to have the seal conditionals. Or it occurs to me it might be easier to modify the first line and add another seal switch set of lines between the two. I'll try to work on both when I'm home from work today.

theckhd wrote:If this is to be believed, HS does better with the regular APL than with the max_dps APL?

That is odd. I'll see if I find anything. Intuitively, since HS only does damage when we block, it would have to be a reduction in blocks or a reduction in AP when the blocks occur.

econ21 wrote:This may be a little off topic, but I was wondering about the value of stamina at L90. I read the Icy Veins prot warrior guide for 6.0 and it said stamina was the worst stat for survivability and that just sounded wrong (it repeated the old canard about being a mana sponge). Am I reading the lastest Sacred Duty TMI results correctly as implying stamina is the best stat for survivability for prot paladins? (I know warriors are not paladins.)

Yes. The IV prot paladin guide (which I review) properly mentions that Stamina is still a valuable stat that you should consider picking up.

That said, the prot warrior guide isn't wrong, strictly speaking:

Stamina is the worst stat in terms of mitigation, and it will often simply stress your healers rather than increase your tanking potential. You should only consider Stamina when you require a bigger health pool in order to avoid one-shots and give your healers some room for error.

Stamina is the worst stat in terms of mitigation, because... well... it doesn't mitigate anything. I disagree with the "often stress your healer" part, as do most other knowledgeable tanks, but that's a quagmire of opinion. In any event, the "give your healers some room for error" is the essence of what Stamina does for you - it allows you to survive bigger spikes.

Ok, I think I found what was causing the HS Max_DPS APLs to under-perform slightly. It looks like you switched back to using the draenic_strength potion for your Max_DPS APLs, which I've been getting as a DPS loss. Last I checked on beta, it was still true that we were getting more AP from the draenic_armor potion than from draenic_strength, so I was using draenic_armor in the Max_DPS APLs. I ran a quick sim using only the HS portions of the file you posted and added one more (SS_SW_HS_MDT_DA) with the first line of the Max_DPS APL changed to:

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actions.max_dps=potion,name=draenic_armor,if=buff.holy_avenger.react|buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=60

Results:

I can put up the full results and/or simulate profile later if needed, but that looks to have corrected the issue. I was a bit surprised that it had that large of an effect, but it's been true in the past with every talent combo I've run, not just HS.

Also a random thought as I been looking over the Max_DPS APL: I moved ES up in the APL in single target testing, but we probably need an "if=active_enemies<2" or "<3" or something on that line and another ES line lower, perhaps below the other level 90 talents again, to reflect its priority in an AoE setting. Always more hairs to split I guess.

Aha, I figured I screwed something up. Makes sense. In the actual program I don't use draenic_strength at all anymore, since draenic_armor is hands-down better.

I'll add the extra ES line and add a conditional to the higher-priority one for active_enemies<3.

Something to consider....
is 2 piece LFR + 4 piece mythic worth it?

2 Piece LFR provides 125 bonus armor

You lose:
Hands and shoulders: 158 str on LFR -> 230 str on mythic
Chest, Legs, head: 211 str LFR -> 306 str on mythic

Stat priorty:
Hands:
Crit/Master LFR -> Haste/MS mythic
Shoulders:
Crit/Haste LFR -> Crit/Haste mythic
Chest:
Crit/MS LFR - > Haste/Mastery mythic
Head:
Haste/Mastery LFR -> Crit/Mastery mythic
Legs:
Mastery/MS LFR -> Crit/MS mythic


If you swapped out the hands and shoulders you lose 144 str, is that worth the increase in 125 bonus armor? Just throwing it out there....

i dont think you can have two bonuses like that since you only got 5 tier pieces.

Klaudandus wrote:i dont think you can have two bonuses like that since you only got 5 tier pieces.

Except LFR is a 6 pc item set.

viperjason wrote:Something to consider....
is 2 piece LFR + 4 piece mythic worth it?

2 Piece LFR provides 125 bonus armor

You lose:
Hands and shoulders: 158 str on LFR -> 230 str on mythic
Chest, Legs, head: 211 str LFR -> 306 str on mythic

Stat priorty:
Hands:
Crit/Master LFR -> Haste/MS mythic
Shoulders:
Crit/Haste LFR -> Crit/Haste mythic
Chest:
Crit/MS LFR - > Haste/Mastery mythic
Head:
Haste/Mastery LFR -> Crit/Mastery mythic
Legs:
Mastery/MS LFR -> Crit/MS mythic


If you swapped out the hands and shoulders you lose 144 str, is that worth the increase in 125 bonus armor? Just throwing it out there....

You can only swap out 1 piece, the other must be the boots or you lose the 4pcs bonus.

EDIT: I'm a retard, you only have to swap out 1 piece of set but you still have have to swap out whatever non tier mythic boots for the LFR version.


@Klaud
They have recently announced that LFR will have a different set which will be a one size fit all kind of set, for example, all plate wearers get the same Blacksteel Battleplate, which actually comes in 6 pieces as you also have the boots.

Hmm, I guess it's interesting that they get some kind of socket bonus. I sincerely doubt they're worth it over Mythic gear, but using Mythic gear for comparison is a bit cheating if you ask me, as by the time you have all the Mythic gear you want, you are likely done with the content.

Either way, you used to run LFR in the hopes of getting that one piece (with at least 2 options) that completed your set bonus, which usually rocked quite hard. Now you'd run LFR in the hopes of getting not one but two pieces (likely preferred in exact slots) to get a minimal stat increase, if at all.

It's probably more interesting to compare the LFR pieces to Heroic pieces of gear, and see how they hold up. Still then, I don't expect the LFR pieces to hold up.

Let's take Gloves and Boots. Gloves are generally the lowest itemized slot of the tier slots, so the difference in ilvl should be minimal.

LFR pieces: http://wod.wowhead.com/item=120392 and http://wod.wowhead.com/item=120394
Heroic Gloves: http://wod.wowhead.com/item=113906&bonus=566 or http://wod.wowhead.com/item=113925&bonus=566
Heroic Boots: http://wod.wowhead.com/item=113936&bonus=566 or http://wod.wowhead.com/item=113961&bonus=566 or http://wod.wowhead.com/item=119341&bonus=566

LFR Stats:
Armor: 211 + 232 = 443
Strength: 158 + 158 = 316
Stamina: 237 + 237 = 474
Secondaries: 109 + 100 + 109 + 100 = 418
Bonus Armor: 125

Heroic Stats:
Armor: 227 + 249 = 476
Strength: 200 + 200 = 400
Stamina: 300 + 300 = 600
Secondaries: 123 + 139 + 137 + 127 = 526

So 125 Bonus armor would have to weigh up against 33 Armor, 84 Strength, 126 Stamina and 108 Secondaries. Even IF that is a gain, it's a tiny one. Also add that the Heroic pieces can have the Warforged bonus, have a Socket, and/or have a Tertiary stat.

Of course, they're not a lot weaker, so if you don't have your heroic gear just yet, they could very well be worth it to hunt down. Also, I'm not sure what section they drop in. I linked the slightly higher boots and gloves, which I assume will drop in the 2nd instance. If the LFR tier pieces are available within the first instance, then that changes things slightly.

Doubt will be worth it.

Made a quick comparison for the gloves, you're losing 108 Stamina, 72 Strength and about a 100 combined secondary stats, double that as you need two pieces and you're down 216 stamina, 144 strength and 200 combined secondary stats, all to gain extra 73 bonus armor. I say 73 as the bonus is 125, but 26 armor gets lost for each piece dropping from Mythic ro LFR.

Could probably be viable for people like me that will start at LFR and step up to Normal, but if you're a proper raider and going straight Heroic/Mythic I don't see it feasible.

Do keep in mind that Bonus Armor is not the same as Armor. Bonus Armor provides both Armor and Attack Power.

Speaking of that, I was doing some testing the other day of various old armor proc effects.

Bulwark of Azzinoth still works, but the proc appears to only give about 940 bonus armor, not the 2000 advertised. I'm not convinced the proc rate is still 2% either, as I got very few procs during my testing. That said, I didn't take careful data of that part, and it was only a few hundred swings, so I can't rule that out with data, but it certainly felt like less than one proc every fifty attacks.

Ashen Band of Endless Courage still gives the full 2400 bonus armor, but the proc rate seemed even worse than the Bulwark. If I had to guess, both proc rates are reduced above their intended level.

I didn't get around to testing Band of the Eternal Defender, but I suspect the same is going to be true of this one.

Theck a couple of questions:

1) I notice is that in your default profile for the paladin you are focusing more on haste than crit? The only thing I've found that the default build is better at than the crit build is HPS. I've also seen that you would use a haste item vs another that had bonus armor. Replaced the back and neck for Bonus Armor and found that it out performed the default and very comparable to the crit build.

2) The LFR bonus does not seem to work in simcraft at the moment. Either that or it doesnt like the ability to have multiple set bonuses on at the same time.

3) When using the automation importer I noticed that the talents portion must have the prefix

Code: Select all

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#bZ!

in order to get the correct DPS. I get a 30% DPS increase in the results by putting in that prefix for the talents.

Gear configs:

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head=helmet_of_guiding_light,id=115568,bonus_id=567
neck=vertebrae_protector,id=113900,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_haste
shoulders=unstable_slag_shoulderplates,id=113884,bonus_id=567
back=charbreath_firecloak,id=113916,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_haste
chest=battleplate_of_guiding_light,id=115566,bonus_id=567
wrists=bracers_of_visceral_force,id=119331,bonus_id=567
hands=gauntlets_of_guiding_light,id=115567,bonus_id=567
waist=uktars_belt_of_chiming_rings,id=113976,bonus_id=567
legs=legplates_of_guiding_light,id=115569,bonus_id=567
feet=sabatons_of_fractal_earth,id=113936,bonus_id=567
finger1=seal_of_unquenchable_flame,id=113922,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_haste
finger2=spellbound_runic_band_of_elemental_invincibility,id=118308,enchant=gift_of_haste
trinket1=forgemasters_insignia,id=113983,bonus_id=567
trinket2=horn_of_screaming_spirits,id=119193,bonus_id=567
main_hand=kromogs_brutal_fist,id=113927,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_warsong
off_hand=kromogs_protecting_palm,id=113926,bonus_id=567
name=default

head=helmet_of_guiding_light,id=115568,bonus_id=567
neck=choker_of_bestial_force,id=113952,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
shoulders=pauldrons_of_guiding_light,id=115565,bonus_id=567
back=ravenous_greatcloak,id=113883,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
chest=bloodsoaked_heart_protector,id=113977,bonus_id=567
wrists=bracers_of_martial_perfection,id=113871,bonus_id=567
hands=gauntlets_of_guiding_light,id=115567,bonus_id=567
waist=uktars_belt_of_chiming_rings,id=113976,bonus_id=567
legs=legplates_of_guiding_light,id=115569,bonus_id=567
feet=doomslag_greatboots,id=119341,bonus_id=567
finger1=seal_of_unquenchable_flame,id=113922,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
finger2=spellbound_runic_band_of_elemental_invincibility,id=118308,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
trinket1=blast_furnace_door,id=113893,bonus_id=567
trinket2=horn_of_screaming_spirits,id=119193,bonus_id=567
main_hand=taners_terrible_spine,id=113862,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_warsong
off_hand=kromogs_protecting_palm,id=113926,bonus_id=567
name=CritBuild

head=helmet_of_guiding_light,id=115568,bonus_id=567
neck=choker_of_bestial_force,id=113952,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
shoulders=pauldrons_of_guiding_light,id=115565,bonus_id=567
back=ravenous_greatcloak,id=113883,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
chest=blacksteel_chestplate,id=120393
wrists=bracers_of_martial_perfection,id=113871,bonus_id=567
hands=gauntlets_of_guiding_light,id=115567,bonus_id=567
waist=uktars_belt_of_chiming_rings,id=113976,bonus_id=567
legs=legplates_of_guiding_light,id=115569,bonus_id=567
feet=blacksteel_greatboots,id=120394
finger1=seal_of_unquenchable_flame,id=113922,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
finger2=spellbound_runic_band_of_elemental_invincibility,id=118308,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
trinket1=blast_furnace_door,id=113893,bonus_id=567
trinket2=horn_of_screaming_spirits,id=119193,bonus_id=567
main_hand=taners_terrible_spine,id=113862,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_warsong
off_hand=kromogs_protecting_palm,id=113926,bonus_id=567
name=CritBuildLFR

head=helmet_of_guiding_light,id=115568,bonus_id=567
neck=choker_of_bestial_force,id=113952,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_haste
shoulders=unstable_slag_shoulderplates,id=113884,bonus_id=567
back=ravenous_greatcloak,id=113883,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_haste
chest=battleplate_of_guiding_light,id=115566,bonus_id=567
wrists=bracers_of_visceral_force,id=119331,bonus_id=567
hands=gauntlets_of_guiding_light,id=115567,bonus_id=567
waist=uktars_belt_of_chiming_rings,id=113976,bonus_id=567
legs=legplates_of_guiding_light,id=115569,bonus_id=567
feet=sabatons_of_fractal_earth,id=113936,bonus_id=567
finger1=seal_of_unquenchable_flame,id=113922,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_haste
finger2=spellbound_runic_band_of_elemental_invincibility,id=118308,enchant=gift_of_haste
trinket1=forgemasters_insignia,id=113983,bonus_id=567
trinket2=horn_of_screaming_spirits,id=119193,bonus_id=567
main_hand=kromogs_brutal_fist,id=113927,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_warsong
off_hand=kromogs_protecting_palm,id=113926,bonus_id=567
name=default_neck_back_change


As far as the LFR two piece vs 2 mythic pieces. using the build above you can see that I replaced the feet and chest of my mythic pieces for LFR. By doing that I dropped the effectiveness of the crit set by 4%. Now, once the set bonus is active on the sims that extra 125 bonus armor my actually be enough to put both builds relatively close to each other.

We arent all going to have pure mythic at start and at that point it really doesnt matter. With pure heroic, its a 2% difference and I'm willing to bet that extra Armor can make up the difference.

Last thought on it....they said tier pieces can become warforged and can get sockets.
They also stated that LFR drop rates are going to be much higher to entice people to goto normal so I expect it would be easier to get a socketed version of the 2pc before getting sockets on the mythic pieces.

LFR is not getting the warforged/socketed/tertiary bonuses, is it?

Either way, you could simply manually give yourself a shirt with 125 bonus armor to simulate the set bonus until SimC has been updated to support it.

shirt=bonus_shirt,stats=125bonusarmor

And if you wanna talk old pieces, what about Royal Seal of Eldre'Thalas?

theckhd wrote:Footer:

Code: Select all

enemy_initial_health_percentage=20


(this just keeps us in execute range the entire time, so we get a larger variation between results and thus more accuracy)

Whenever I try that myself, I get the following error:

Simulation setup error: Unknown option 'enemy_initial_health_percentage' with value '20'
Simulation failed!

Also, for APL testing, Ret is missing a couple of important conditions, such as checking for the Divine Crusader proc. I'll be doing some more testing, and then write out a full list of useful conditions.

viperjason wrote:1) I notice is that in your default profile for the paladin you are focusing more on haste than crit? The only thing I've found that the default build is better at than the crit build is HPS. I've also seen that you would use a haste item vs another that had bonus armor. Replaced the back and neck for Bonus Armor and found that it out performed the default and very comparable to the crit build.

The default gear profile I've been using in sims here was put together back before we were aware that haste was weak. I just never bothered to update it much, because it mostly affects stat weights, and I shifted my attention to L90 sims. Once I get back to working on L100/T17 sims, I'll probably update it to be a more mastery-heavy set.

That said, I have no idea why you'd want to stack crit - I don't think we've seen it outperform mastery.

viperjason wrote:2) The LFR bonus does not seem to work in simcraft at the moment. Either that or it doesnt like the ability to have multiple set bonuses on at the same time.

I'm not sure if the LFR gear has been implemented yet. I'll have to ask about it.

viperjason wrote:3) When using the automation importer I noticed that the talents portion must have the prefix

Code: Select all

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#bZ!

in order to get the correct DPS. I get a 30% DPS increase in the results by putting in that prefix for the talents.

That's not a problem with the importer, it's a problem with your talent input string. The battle.net talent format uses 0/1/2 to indicate the three talent columns, with (I think) a "." to indicate no selection. So e.g. ..2..1. would be just Sacred Shield and Light's Hammer chosen.

SimC's talent strings use 1/2/3 to indicate the columns, with a 0 meaning no talent selected. So "talents=0030020" would be the same build as above. SimC is smart enough to interpret the battle.net format as long as it's part of a URL, but it expects you to use the 0-3 format if you're using "talents=", which is what the automation tool is doing.

viperjason wrote:As far as the LFR two piece vs 2 mythic pieces. using the build above you can see that I replaced the feet and chest of my mythic pieces for LFR. By doing that I dropped the effectiveness of the crit set by 4%. Now, once the set bonus is active on the sims that extra 125 bonus armor my actually be enough to put both builds relatively close to each other.

We arent all going to have pure mythic at start and at that point it really doesnt matter. With pure heroic, its a 2% difference and I'm willing to bet that extra Armor can make up the difference.

How are you measuring effectiveness in this case? I'm a bit skeptical that 125 bonus armor is even a 1% difference, let alone 2% or 4%.

Thels wrote:

theckhd wrote:Footer:

Code: Select all

enemy_initial_health_percentage=20


(this just keeps us in execute range the entire time, so we get a larger variation between results and thus more accuracy)

Whenever I try that myself, I get the following error:

Simulation setup error: Unknown option 'enemy_initial_health_percentage' with value '20'
Simulation failed!

Well, it worked back when I performed those simulations. I'll have to check and see if someone has removed that option. What revision of the sim are you using?

Thels wrote:Also, for APL testing, Ret is missing a couple of important conditions, such as checking for the Divine Crusader proc. I'll be doing some more testing, and then write out a full list of useful conditions.

I have someone working on the Ret APL, and actually have a list of changes to make to it today. So you may want to wait until that happens. If you like, I can copy/paste the final Ret APL here after I'm done making his changes so you can pick that apart.

Side note: I don't normally do any optimization of Ret - I leave that up to actual Ret theorycrafters, and just implement the changes they tell me to make. However, the EJ thread has been basically silent for most of beta, and they're usually the ones making the suggestions that I implement. I have no idea whether that community is dead or if it'll pick up again once L100 is open.

Here's the newly-updated Ret APL, feel free to tear it apart (I have no idea how well-optimized it is):

Code: Select all

# Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only.

actions.precombat=flask,type=greater_draenic_strength_flask
actions.precombat+=/food,type=sleeper_surprise
actions.precombat+=/blessing_of_kings,if=!aura.str_agi_int.up
actions.precombat+=/blessing_of_might,if=!aura.mastery.up
actions.precombat+=/seal_of_truth,if=active_enemies<2
actions.precombat+=/seal_of_righteousness,if=active_enemies>=2
# Snapshot raid buffed stats before combat begins and pre-potting is done.
actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
actions.precombat+=/potion,name=draenic_strength

# Executed every time the actor is available.

actions=rebuke
actions+=/potion,name=draenic_strength,if=(buff.bloodlust.react|buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.time_to_die<=40)
actions+=/auto_attack
actions+=/speed_of_light,if=movement.distance>5
actions+=/execution_sentence
actions+=/lights_hammer
actions+=/holy_avenger,sync=seraphim,if=talent.seraphim.enabled
actions+=/holy_avenger,if=holy_power<=2&!talent.seraphim.enabled
actions+=/avenging_wrath,sync=seraphim,if=talent.seraphim.enabled
actions+=/avenging_wrath,if=!talent.seraphim.enabled
actions+=/use_item,name=vial_of_convulsive_shadows
actions+=/blood_fury
actions+=/berserking
actions+=/arcane_torrent
actions+=/seraphim
actions+=/call_action_list,name=aoe,if=active_enemies>=5
actions+=/call_action_list,name=cleave,if=active_enemies>=3
actions+=/call_action_list,name=single

actions.single=divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&holy_power=5&buff.final_verdict.up
actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&holy_power=5&active_enemies=2&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=holy_power=5&active_enemies=2&buff.final_verdict.up
actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&holy_power=5&(talent.seraphim.enabled&cooldown.seraphim.remains<=4)
actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=holy_power=5|buff.holy_avenger.up&holy_power>=3&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>4)
actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=buff.divine_purpose.react&buff.divine_purpose.remains<4
actions.single+=/final_verdict,if=holy_power=5|buff.holy_avenger.up&holy_power>=3
actions.single+=/final_verdict,if=buff.divine_purpose.react&buff.divine_purpose.remains<4
actions.single+=/hammer_of_wrath
actions.single+=/judgment,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&((seal.truth&buff.maraads_truth.remains<cooldown.judgment.duration*2)|(seal.righteousness&buff.liadrins_righteousness.remains<cooldown.judgment.duration*2))
actions.single+=/exorcism,if=buff.blazing_contempt.up&holy_power<=2&buff.holy_avenger.down
actions.single+=/seal_of_truth,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&buff.maraads_truth.remains<(cooldown.judgment.duration)&buff.maraads_truth.remains<=3
actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&buff.final_verdict.up
actions.single+=/final_verdict,if=buff.divine_purpose.react
actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=(buff.avenging_wrath.up|talent.divine_purpose.enabled)&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>4)
actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=talent.divine_purpose.enabled&buff.divine_crusader.react&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
actions.single+=/crusader_strike
actions.single+=/final_verdict
actions.single+=/seal_of_righteousness,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&buff.liadrins_righteousness.remains<(cooldown.judgment.duration)&buff.liadrins_righteousness.remains<=3
actions.single+=/judgment
actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=holy_power>=4&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>4)
actions.single+=/exorcism
actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=holy_power>=3&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>4)
actions.single+=/holy_prism

actions.cleave=final_verdict,if=buff.final_verdict.down&holy_power=5
actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=holy_power=5&buff.final_verdict.up
actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=holy_power=5&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>4)&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
actions.cleave+=/exorcism,if=buff.blazing_contempt.up&holy_power<=2&buff.holy_avenger.down
actions.cleave+=/hammer_of_wrath
actions.cleave+=/judgment,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&seal.righteousness&buff.liadrins_righteousness.remains<=5
actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>4)&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
actions.cleave+=/crusader_strike
actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=buff.final_verdict.up
actions.cleave+=/judgment
actions.cleave+=/exorcism
actions.cleave+=/holy_prism

actions.aoe=divine_storm,if=holy_power=5&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>4)
actions.aoe+=/exorcism,if=buff.blazing_contempt.up&holy_power<=2&buff.holy_avenger.down
actions.aoe+=/hammer_of_the_righteous
actions.aoe+=/judgment,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&seal.righteousness&buff.liadrins_righteousness.remains<=5
actions.aoe+=/hammer_of_wrath
actions.aoe+=/divine_storm,if=(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>4)
actions.aoe+=/exorcism,if=glyph.mass_exorcism.enabled
actions.aoe+=/judgment
actions.aoe+=/exorcism
actions.aoe+=/holy_prism