On the Effectiveness of Various Threat Stats for Tankadins

Did some research for ya. There are 2 numbers we use for the spell dmg to TPS conversion: 0.63 and 0.5.

0.63 was calculated on this site from what I can tell. I will quote the passage referring to it:

Nahh, not really.

For me, it's more common having Sanc Aura and Misery than having a warrior. I have 1 ret paladin and 1 holy paladin with SA in most raids, so when threat matters, I'll get SA.
There are few raids that doesn't contain shadow priests at all.
For me, those are basic raids.
It's like trying to calculate expertise gain without sunder armor, it doesn't work as well.
If I'm going on a boss where my threat is important, I'll get a Sanctity Aura paladin.

From Illidan, I had 98,8% hit on consecration and 100% hit on SoR. I had a total of 11,7% miss on melee swings. I had 11% resist on JoR
My crit rate is 7,39% + 3% from imp JotC. That gives me a net loss of maybe 5% in total on JoR.
I don't see 20-30% missrate on melee on me.

Having precision is pretty normal to have in a tanking build, so don't come and tell me that bosses have 17% resist rate. Most likely, you're gonna have JotC up as well if you're going for threat.

And I didn't include HS, exorcism, avenger's shield, holy wrath either.

If anything, 0,714 TPS per spell damage is too low. Every boss where threat matters alot in T6 and SW are demons/undead.

Maybe I'm off, but this is at least my experience.

If you're going to measure a conversion stat, you take the one under semi-ideal conditions. I'm not talking about a boss with moonkin-FF, or with an elemental shaman in my group. I'm just talking about 2 things: Misery and Sanctity aura. And if you're worried about single target threat, you can ask for that one paladin at least has Sanctity aura just like warrior tanks asks for a shaman in their group for WF totem. It also lessens the stigmatism for the warlock that has to be in MT group for imp.


And about conflicting sequences, well, Judgement + consecration works fine, and if you don't have to worry about being uncrushable, there's no rush in reapplying holy shield.

Anyhow, I'm not taking all the skills into account, but I'm not counting all the counters as well. So it's not too far off to say that the value is at least 0,7 TPS per spell damage.

And it's a good indicator to use T6-gear level still because that's the point where warriros gain alot more threat.

http://wowwebstats.com/hjjh3jgf611a3?a=x318e52&s=228707-269513
There you have a reference from me wearing EH-gear, and only 2 parts of T6. It was a wipenight unfortunately, so DPS was totally crap this night. That's why we had so many attempts-
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Calm down partner. No need to get riled (referring to the 17% bosses resist rate comment...you seemed upset).

From your WWS, you had a 11.7% all miss rate . That means that 11.7% of all your melee swings (and consecquently your SoR hits) did no damage at all. That is a decent chunk of your SoR and melee dmg. It looks like spells ranged from 11% to 14% miss, and had some partial dmg reduction. Those will reduce your conversion factor.

I typically run between 14% and 19% all miss in my gear, but I am in early T6. Before I got to this level, I was going 20-25% in T5, depending on gear and the phase of the moon.

All bosses do have a 17% resist rate. If you have precision, that goes to 14%. I am not sure what the issue is there or why you are being so mean about it. It is what it is. I know you are smart enough to calculate the differences in your head, at least based on your previous posts, so I assumed giving the base resist was sufficient.

When coming up with a conversion rate, you take the most realist conditions you can muster. Taking stacked values isn't very responsible. Including 1HWS is fine, it is part of our cookie cutter. I will even go with Misery as it is a raid buff that is pretty common. Sanc Aura isn't as common, so I wouldn't count it. Resists/misses/dodges/parries should count. Otherwise, the value is high and misleading.

Also, consider the concept that you are talking Illidan level tanking. If you want a separate conversion factor for that level of gear, that is fine. The ones used here are more general and apply to the paladin populace in general. We will have higher all miss rates, and probably lower TPS. Consequently, we won't all have ret paladins, and even if we do we won't always be allowed to have them in the tank group, nor should we always put them there. If you want a number specifically for you or even your content/gear level, then great. 0.7ish it is. It doesn't map out to the rest of the world though.

The numbers here don't map out to your experience? That is fine. It happens. You can't have a magic number that fits everyone 100%, that is why you try to take the average paladin and get one for there (or perhaps we should look at calculating different ones for different gearing levels). You have to take these things into consideration. If you want to help out with figuring the different conversion factors for each tier (and maybe the "entering T_ versus been in T_ for a while), then that would be a great addition to our community knowledge base.
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Problem is that you didn't read the numbers (this is including partial resists)
Consecration: 5,5% total resisted of damage.
Holy shield: 13,3%
JoR: 11%
SoR: 11% (same as melee)
Exorcism 14,3%
Avenger's shield: 0%

The point where you can choose between expertise and spell damage is the point where you get 0,7 TPS per spell damage.

And at the same level of gear, you should count exorcism as well, since when you have spell damage specific gear, you're probably in T6 instances. At least I didn't have a perfect gear until then since I used T4 for threat, which increases holy shield and SoR damage, which means that conversion will be higher, and once I swapped to full T5, I was already inside BT where all threat-sensitive bosses are demons/undead.

And if you're really concerned about your threat, you can do a Lore and spec sanctity aura instead of Avenger's shield.

Maybe threat conversion is lower at T4-T5 level. I'm just using the numbers I'm used to. You can take out any point in my calculations and disprove it.

The whole thing is that Dorvan is wrong about that 825 TPS is the turning point of where expertise is equivalent with spell damage, cause it's not.
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I don't think you are reading my posts. I did read your numbers and included them in my post even (11.7%, 11-14%, etc.). I even made mention of seeing the partial resists.

His numbers take into account miss resists, partial resists, and misses/dodges/parries. Yours do not. It is that simple. His number will be different than yours because of it.

I don't want to disprove your numbers at all, so don't take it that way. I just want you to compare apples to apples rather than apples to oranges. If you find a better number, then great, but right now your number is incomplete without resists/partial resists/misses/dodges/parries/crits. In addition you include things that not every tankadin has access to all the time (Sanc. Aura). It skews your results. Fix those things and it will be a good number.
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Just divide it by 1,12 then if you don't want to include sanctity aura.

Dorvan's numbers are still too low. Point is that resist/crit/miss/dodge/parry are all indivual. The total effect is no more than at 10-11% in total. Then we need to reduce it by 2-3% because of crits.

Then we need to include holy shield blocks that gain 5% per block x 1,2 for imp holy shield x 1,35 extra threat coefficient.

This adds anywhere between 0% and 6,48% per second depending on how many charges gets used.

Exorcism gains 43%, so 43% / 15 = 2,867%
Avenger's shield: 0,45 % per sec

Consecration 95.24% / 8 = 11,9% Spell damage to DPS x 1,1 (T6 bonus) = 12,3%
JoR 71.43% / 8 = 8,93% spell damage to DPS
SoR 9.2% per second to DPS
Holy shield (3 blocks in 10 seconds)2,43%
Exorcism 2,87%
AS: 0,45%

Total spell damage: 36,18%
Average resist rate (14%): 31,11%
There, I reduced the number by 14%, that's more than what's expected. I didn't add crit though.
This gives us a base DPS of 0,3111 per point of spell damage. Now, let's add buffs.

1h weapon spec = 1,05 * 0,3111 = 0,3267
Misery = 1,05 * 0,3267 = 0,3430
Imp RF = 1,9 * 0,3430 = 0,6517
With imp SA = 0,6517 * 1,12 = 0,7299

So, it's still better than 0,5, even without imp SA.

And before you say "but you added exorcism", remember that there are very few bosses where threat is important. And those where it matters are usually demon/undead.

Bosses which aren't:
Hydross, but your threat is gonan suck anyway
Void Reaver: Lol
Gurtogg Bloodboil: I have more issues keeping him off me than on me if I start off.
All other bosses are bosses where threat doesn't matter, or they're demon/undead.
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True enough, but that fight is a bit special, since it's either time without consecration or without SoR.

And I have to prioritize holy shield before anything else.
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I'll try to find some Teron Gorefiend WWS from myself next time we down him.
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Question for the theory crafters- and I apologize if this has been answered in the thousands of posts here....

I am a full t6 tank. In my spell dmg gear, my threat set, I average 800+ spell dmg and maintain 1800 TPS. I have judicators legplates which offer me 47 spell dmg.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34382

I picked up Felstrength legplates, which offer no spell dmg, but more mitigation, as well as 40 expertise. In my threat set this is the only expertise I have, excluding the 10 from talents.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34381

Which leggings would be more threat, single target, at my gear level and threat level?
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