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Maintankadin

Defense or Dodge - Here are the graphs

Elsie
Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:13 pm
I wish someone would figure out a guideline such as
9 defense : 1 dodge : X parry after a given Y Defense and Z Dodge

For instance, given the previous, we have
    9 def : 1 dodge after 1556 dodge.
    1 parry : 1 dodge after 700 dodge given 689 defense

The next logical step is to find out 1 parry : 1 dodge after 689+9 defense.

Then we will have a formula for 9 def : 1 dodge : x parry after 1556 dodge.
Of course, dodge, defense, and parry levels aren't nearly that high yet, except possibly after naxx 25. I've seen defense values in roughly the 689 - 1200 range, and dodge rating in the 250-500 range, with parry 0-200 range as realistic. So after the "convergence" formula we'd need another one to handle realistic ranges.

Of particular note I'm finding that with certain gear swaps I gain more total uncrushability from dodge than defense. No formulate I can give you, but it's an amusing asside.
Kaedan
Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:54 pm
.....whoa
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Kaedan
Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:55 pm
Weird, my armory sig is not updating.
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Janduin
Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:24 am
Which mods are people using to calculate true avoidance, with diminishing returns baked in? New version of RatingBuster does it in the tooltips for individual items I think, but when I open up TankPoints' calculator and set mob level to 80 the percentages I get are almost the same as the ones on the character sheet, which are before diminishing returns, correct? Which would make the TankPoints calculator rather useless for determining whether one is at the block cap or not.
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Majiben
Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:30 am
The character sheet displays all DR correctly except for miss.
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I made a port to exodar. My friend proceeds to MD Alar onto the AFK tank, and we both run. People ran with us, until the port, and realised it was to exodar. Only three of us went through. Turns out people would rather die than go to exodar. -Infurnus
Janduin
Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:33 am
Aha, just the tooltip is pre-DR. Got it.
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Janduin
Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:38 am
Wait, that still means miss doesn't have DR folded in, so how are people calculating block cap correctly? Or are you just going a few % over to be safe. For instance, I'm fairly certain TankPoints calculator doesn't have miss DR folded in.
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harlekin
Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:59 am
That's a good question. There's not an easy place to see the miss rate and we're still not sure on the actual rate of diminishing returns for miss because it requires a pretty large data set to have any statistical certainty of the coefficients. I'm not sure what the various addons are doing about miss. Maybe I should head over to elitist jerks and scour their forums for any extra info (particularly the ratingsbuster stuff that the DR equations came from).

I just finished leveling my Mage to 80, so I'll be spending a lot more time on my paladin. I'll try to start logging my combat so I can add to the existing data. I'd like to be a bit more certain about the DR coefficient for miss.
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Shadow Council - US - Horde
Xandreth (74) - Prot Paladin - MT (going ret until 75)
Tyrenn (80) - Frostfire Mage
Saege (70) - Resto Druid in training
Staub (63) - DK backup tank
Majiben
Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:33 am
I just wated to throw in that there's a small error somewhere in your spread sheet. At very low levels of ratings (close to 0) the spread sheet shows that diminishing returns is increasing parry/dodge over the prediminished returns. Sounds like your intercepts may be a little off.
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I made a port to exodar. My friend proceeds to MD Alar onto the AFK tank, and we both run. People ran with us, until the port, and realised it was to exodar. Only three of us went through. Turns out people would rather die than go to exodar. -Infurnus
KysenMurrin
Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:00 am
I believe that was mentioned in the original EJ thread where they calculated the diminishing returns - at very small values, dodge and parry are increased by the formula.
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Spamdrew
Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:30 pm
It seems to me that the best way to express the idea of an optimally balanced set of stats is to formulate a formula along these lines;

Given X amount of rating in avoidance stats the optimal split is
a(defence)
b(dodge[including agi])
c(parry)

Now I don't know nearly enough maths to even begin to calculate this but the way that it would work is that if you add up all your defence, dodge and parry rating then add your raid buffed agi after converting it into dodge rating (should be straight forward AGI/AGI to dodge rate*dodge rating per % of dodge). Plug this number into the formula to determine the optimal spread for your current gear level then do it for a value 10% higher than your current gear level to get an idea of how you should be trying to gear your character.

So for people who have actually done a maths related degree how easy is it to do based on our current information?
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