The Case for Haste

If we go by the haste plot end points then yes, haste is better than crit here. That might change if the graph was extended to 1000 each way, for example.

Lo and behold, haste is getting buffed! http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/3569 ... anuary-12/

Haste is becoming 1% per 90 rating instead of 100, and Sacred Duty will be boosting our haste by 30% instead of 5%. It seems Blizz now realizes they have another knob to turn with attunements. Several other specs are getting theirs tuned as well.

I just saw that. Hah

So, they've not only buffed our attunement, but the rating conversion across the board. This is going to make things interesting, and not just for us...

Rejoice! I finally have something to do again! I'll sim the latest hotfixes tomorrow and see how we do now. Originally I found Sacred Duty would need to be 40% to make haste equivalent to mastery, but the additional boost of the rating conversion could account for that extra 10%.

Its been a while since Theck posted on his blog - this ought to do it!

:)

so since this has happened

Hammer of the Righteous/Crusader Strike (Holy, Protection) An instant strike that causes (120% of weapon damage) Physical damage. No longer generates 1 Holy Power

I feel like I would have been happier as is with lack luster haste. we aren't really getting any "benefit" if anything removing holy power generation here and then giving us the extra haste will at best keep us where we are at already. at least, that's how it reads to me. would love to be wrong.

Is a 30% haste buff enough?

Sacred Duty now causes the Paladin to gain 30% (up from 5%) more of the Haste stat from all sources.

ShwayNorris, that looks more like a datamining error than a real change. If they were removing Holy Power from our main generator there would be significant new mechanics involved.

I for one welcome the return of Haste.

the reason i doubt that, is the changes to crusader strike and HotR for retribution are listed separately right below the prot/holy changes, still saying it generates holy power. but honestly i really hope you are right. seems like a massive nerf otherwise.

PsiVen wrote:I for one welcome the return of Haste.

I would too... if I was still a maintankadin.

I'm back to ret this expansion, and having mastery be a key stat for both specs really helped me keep a good tank set thus far!

Now I'll need more pieces for the odd night one of our mains cannot make it :( My hybrid heaven may come to an end!

ShwayNorris wrote:so since this has happened

Hammer of the Righteous/Crusader Strike (Holy, Protection) An instant strike that causes (120% of weapon damage) Physical damage. No longer generates 1 Holy Power

I feel like I would have been happier as is with lack luster haste. we aren't really getting any "benefit" if anything removing holy power generation here and then giving us the extra haste will at best keep us where we are at already. at least, that's how it reads to me. would love to be wrong.

Theck covered this on MMO Champ the otherday. He stated that CS and HotR will still generate Holy Power, because we know Word of Glory which is a requirement for the abilities to grant the holy power.


Source: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/163 ... st31630376

Ashaton wrote:Rejoice! I finally have something to do again! I'll sim the latest hotfixes tomorrow and see how we do now. Originally I found Sacred Duty would need to be 40% to make haste equivalent to mastery, but the additional boost of the rating conversion could account for that extra 10%.

Hopefully, the 30% suffices, I recall from Theck "The Trouble with Haste," recent post on Sacred Duty, stated "If Sacred Duty suddenly increased haste from gear by 30% rather than 5%, haste would be back in business." Would be the improvement we need to benefit from haste once again; in addition, to "The Haste stat is now 11.1% more effective. For example, characters at level 100 now receive a 1% increase per 90 Haste (up from 1% per 100 Haste)." Look forward to the new sim data on the changes.

haste hype :O wouldn't mind getting that CS bk to 3 seconds :) if it going to be enough tho im curious what theck has to say about this.
it better no longer be the dumpster stat for prot!

What would we need to add to simcraft to be able to sim our characters for the new changes?

I am entertained to see that you guys actually "won" over haste. Good job :P


.....but wouldn't it have been better and faster to just change the attunement to mastery?

I do miss the days back in MOP, when haste made my rotation feel smoother or to put it simply "faster," to acquire more SoTR or that oh crap moment, when in 8-10 seconds boss hard hitting ability is incoming and I need to generate HP for SoTR. I'm totally not against how the rotation feels now, because with so many abilities in our rotation, it does feel like we can go through a full rotation without pausing one ability for a higher priority ability like CS coming off CD. I'am curious about haste interaction with SoL, DP, SS, etc in new sim data. I've always like the idea to have mastery and haste be close together in value for a balanced mitigation/dps build. However, unlike in ToT when there was predictable large dmg incoming like horridon and ji kun, which made SoTR feel useful to queue it and time it at times, not so much yet in WOD raids. Tanking mititgation just feels more passive than active, while focusing more on optimizing the rotation to push more dps, because on Brackenspore, the flamethrower guys got lazy and the creeping moss is creeping fast!

Writing blog post as we speak. Note that the combination of the two changes is equivalent to changing Sacred Duty to 44%, so it's more than enough to push haste ahead of everything else.

CS/HotR will not stop generating Holy Power. It's a datamining error. Stop blindly trusting datamined tooltips. By now you should know that Tooltips Lie (tm). Also, that would be an incredibly stupid change.

The hotfixes are already in the SimC code, if Collision pushes out a release today (he may have already, I haven't looked yet) you can sim your character as normal in that. I also have fairly extensive sim results for the blog post already.

theckhd wrote:Writing blog post as we speak. Note that the combination of the two changes is equivalent to changing Sacred Duty to 44%, so it's more than enough to push haste ahead of everything else.

It's like I won the lottery...

theckhd wrote:Writing blog post as we speak. Note that the combination of the two changes is equivalent to changing Sacred Duty to 44%, so it's more than enough to push haste ahead of everything else.

Even Bonus Armor, or is that still ahead? Thought you might consider it separately given it's only available on a few slots.

mclem wrote:Even Bonus Armor, or is that still ahead? Thought you might consider it separately given it's only available on a few slots.

Would still be under Bonus Armor. Would have to be close to three times as good as it was previously to overtake BA.

Just dropped 2k on a Greater Mastery gem. Grrrrrrr.

Well unless you are raiding Mythic, Mastery is still a very valid choice for your gear ;) Just 4% or so worse!

Worldie wrote:.....but wouldn't it have been better and faster to just change the attunement to mastery?

I won't comment on "faster", but I don't think mastery would be necessarily "better" (depends on how you define "better"). I found haste prioritization made the rotation feel more fun to me. I don't have any kind of reason for that other than maybe I just liked the feel of faster rotation (I was a huge fan of the 3.0 CS back in the day as well).

That doesn't mean I think mastery isn't any fun, but I just really enjoyed haste in MoP and like the idea of it for WoD as well. For me, that makes haste "better", but it's a subjective decision for me.

In Thecks blog post he has this Chart for TMI post hotfix:



Why is Haste so much lower for HA+Sera than for the other specs? Even compared to the two other Seraphim specs, it loses a lot of value.

Switching between the two stat weights for Sera+HA and HS+SW switches haste from worst to best stat. Granted Haste is extremely good for Sera+HA for DPS.


My Thought is that the simmed stats are in between a break point where you can't quite squeeze out another Holy power generator for another SotR, but not sure if someone else had some insight