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Question about 3.0.3 JoL TPS

fudomyou
Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:55 am

Question about 3.0.3 JoL TPS

In the general forum, the patch thread said that Judgment of Light is causing incredible amounts of threat in raids. Could anyone offer theoretical numbers beyond "4k tps on the off-target for Eredar Twins"? I'm not sure how huge this is in numerical terms, and I'd like to know if I should never, ever allow anyone other than a paladin tank to cast JoL in a raid situation.

Thanks in advance!
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Falibard
Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:09 pm
It is my understanding that the ridiculous amount of threat is JoL combined with RF. If you have a Ret Pally that rides your threat normally just tell them to judge wisdom to start, you'll pull away pretty quickly, especially since spells now proc JoL (3.0.3)
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Lore
Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:33 pm
I pulled aggro on Kalecgos a week or two ago just by judging JoL about 10 seconds into the fight. Didn't even swing at him.

I imagine making it raidwide will make it pretty rofl, and it needs to be fixed.
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Talwen
Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:21 pm
Yeah, something like this happened to me last night on our first Felmyst attempt. I judged light and was autoattacking, kinda zoning out since I don't have much to do in phase 1... and then I'm hearing in vent "Tal! Bubble!". Warrior couldn't get her back even with the 12s of my divine shield and me just standing there. From then on I used no RF till the first phase 2; that seems to keep it under control. Pretty embarassing ><
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Warden
Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:46 pm
It shouldn't be a problem. The priest on HKM doesn't do any aoe, so most of the JoL procs will be overhealing, which does not cause threat. It's really only rediculously threat-intensive on fights that have:

1. A significant portion of the raid taking damage, usually from a raid-wide aoe and...
2. That same significant portion of the raid dpsing the target with JoL on it.

A perfect example of the is Naj, where the entire raid is dpsing a single target, and the entire raid is frequently getting hit for ~8k damage.
Nicki
Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:50 pm
This JoL threat must only really be escalated by Righteous Fury because I have been judging light on kiljaedan without any issue on KJ...

2.5k-3k dps (we have insanely brokened servers that like too delay responses most of the time we have guilds in SWP...) and 1.7k HPS from JoL and my threat is around that of the arms warrior atleast according too omen...
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d503
Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:50 pm
Had RF on after Sacrolash died and actually pulled threat in the last 2% of Alythess...wasn't paying attention and I pulled off the warlock tank...managed to blaze the whole group, but we still got her down...

That's what I get for just looking at a health bar, and ignoring Omen...fortunately I'm the guild leader!
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rocket
Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:28 pm
same story here...i pulled the 2nd twin that the warlock tanks (Alythess) prolly 20 seconds after Sacrolash died. I did open up with a judgement, exorcism, Holy wrath, Hammer....oh crap
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caboom
Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:41 am
As i've said it before, ret is not a dps class/spec with an agro wipe, he has however his own HoSalv wich is a very good agro dump, however it is extremely bad for him to be judging light, and he should avoid it at all costs, as it can obviously get him killed(dead dps = 0 dps, go figure).

I had holy pallies in my raid, judging JoL on raid dmging fights(naj, felmyst, etc.) and they didn't have any agro problems, it's also because they are ranged vs ret's melee(130% tank's threat at a range vs. 110% tank's threat in melee) and they are not using RF.

So the rules of judging should be like this:

1) if u have a prot pally tanking or off-tanking, he should be the only one doing JoL since he needs it and he can also efectively keep it up.

2) if you have no prot pally in raid, but u have holys and rets, then the holy pallies will be judging light, with rets judging wisdom.

Edit : Since JoL scales with raid composition, the number of melee chars, and their swing timers VS. the damage taken by these melee chars, and effectively healed up by JoL procs, it is hard if not impossible to create a spreadsheet to get TPS of it for a given raid, however you can get a number by taking the total ammount healed by JoL(from a WWS report) multiply it by the specific paladin judging it threat multiplier(2.66, if RF is up, 1.0 if it's a holy paladin w/o RF and 0.7 if it's a ret paladin with Fanaticism talent).
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towelliee
Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:33 am
Where does the 2.66 threat Multiplier come from? How do you know to multiply by that much?

Just wondering
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sanctifico
Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:08 am
Salvation is baked into all base abilities, it is only removed when in a defensive form/stance (RF/Def/Bear/Frost)

Salvation ~ 43% threat reduction. so modifier is 1.43
RF is 90% threat increase so modifier is 1.90
Healing does .5? (or .25) threat per 1 healing so modifier is 0.25 or 0.5.


Holy damage and healing benefit from RF and the Salvation.
White damage only benefits from Salvation.

Holy Damage - ((1*1.43)*1.9) = 2.717 Threat per damage
White Damage - (1*1.43) = 1.43 Threat per damage
Healing - (((1*0.5)*1.43)*1.9) = 1.3585 Threat per Healing
OR - (((1*0.25)*1.43)*1.9) = 0.67925 Threat per Healing (Note: this is if its .25 threat per effective healing)

Bold = Base threat before modifiers
Red = Inbaked salvation modifier
Green = Rightious Fury Mofier

So to workout 3000 Holy damage as threat its 3000*2.717 = 8151Threat


my math may be out, but meh
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