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Maintankadin

Agi vs Dodge? With DR will Agi become better?

Candiru
Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:01 am

Agi vs Dodge? With DR will Agi become better?

Now, dodge rating provides more avoidance than agi at all levels of gear.

The armour boost from Agi remains constant.

This means that as your DR to dodge kick in, at some point stacking Agi will become better than stacking dodge rating. (for total average mitigation)

Has anyone worked out what this point is? I assume it will depend on your Stamina and Dodge %.
Elsie
Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:12 am
There is no "dodge rating DR." It's Dodge DR. AGI and Dodge Rating both give Dodge. Therefore, Dodge is always going to give more Dodge % (avoidance) than AGI.

However, AGI would eventually, at some currently unobtainable number of agi/dodge/defense, become very close to Dodge in avoidance and better in terms of EH due to armor.
Targonis
Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:38 am
Riad Buffed last night I was at 27.11% Dodge... take a look at my armory, very little agi, a lot of Dodge Rating atm. im at 103.2% Avoidance w/ close to 26k unbuffed hp, and more upgrades to come. As it is right now it's a good guide for 10/25 loot mix to get where you want for pure/blocked avoidance.

I wouldn't go out of my way to stack agi at the sacrifice of the needs like Def/Sta.
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Candiru
Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:40 am
Exactly Elise, as you gain more Dodge%, the avoidance gap between dodge rating and agi decreases.

The armour beenfit is constant, so at some point the damage reduction % from the extra armour will be equal to the lost avoidance in terms of total average damage mitigation.

You also get crit too.

I stuck 16agi on my cloak over 16 dodge as its a blue cloak and the enchant is much much cheaper. Was idly wondering when the 16agi would be better than 16dodge. (although at that point the 225 armour is probably > both)
Thels
Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:22 am
Though AGI does give armor, the armor gained is miniscule and barely worth counting. It won't weight up to the difference with dodge in any way with the current reachable values, and once it does, you're either stacking too much avoidance, or you managed to reach avoidance cap, and then armor has become useless.
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harlekin
Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:13 pm
The interesting thing about all of this is that now with DR on avoidance there is reason to pay more attention to the relationship between your EH and avoidance. I think right now everyone is going with their gut that stacking EH is the best thing to do at the block cap, but I'm not sure that it has been proven. (I have the same gut feeling, but my gut feeling on defense v dodge was wrong when I worked out the math)

I think we're getting into territory where TTL analysis is starting to become the direction that we need to go to figure out which stats to push on our gear as we flesh out the T7 sets and prepare for the eventual T8 content. The only problem is that TTL analysis is harder to perform because you have to make assumptions about the strength of the incoming hits. On the other hand, TTL is much friendlier to block mechanics than the simpler EH and avoidance that has been the standby for so long.

I honestly think that the direction my theorycrafting should take is damage sweeps and monte carlo simulations with a TTL type focus. That could give us insight on the value of the armor contribution of agility and all of the other little quirks that we tend to ignore.
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Shadow Council - US - Horde
Xandreth (74) - Prot Paladin - MT (going ret until 75)
Tyrenn (80) - Frostfire Mage
Saege (70) - Resto Druid in training
Staub (63) - DK backup tank
harlekin
Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:51 am
Agility gives what, 2 armor per? That actually can add up pretty quickly. I think people underestimate the value of armor.

On the subject of the OP, I've been trying to add EH and TTL numbers into my spreadsheet (not ready for mass consumption as of yet). Comparing dodge rating and agility 1:1, it looks like they're pretty close. Agi gives you a bit more EH, dodge gives a bit more avoidance. Which one is better is pretty situational, depending on how hard the bosses hit and such.
_________________
Shadow Council - US - Horde
Xandreth (74) - Prot Paladin - MT (going ret until 75)
Tyrenn (80) - Frostfire Mage
Saege (70) - Resto Druid in training
Staub (63) - DK backup tank
Elsie
Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:05 am
I think something we also haven't considered is if, at this point, we wouldn't be better off with parry rating.

The simple answer is no, since a lot of the best gear in naxx already has parry on it. I just thought I'd throw it out there.
Candiru
Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:16 am
Now, remember you need to compare 1.1 agi to 1 dodge rating, since kings boosts your agi.

I'll try to work it out if I get time. Shouldn't be too difficuly once you track down all the DR and armour forumlae.