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Maintankadin

Just how embarassing is resilience?

Dethedrus
Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:46 pm

Just how embarassing is resilience?

I had a nice chunk of the stuff in BC but it was all ancillary and not planned as such (s2 weapon primarily). I always rode the edge of uncritability and focused on very heavy stamina and high basic avoidance (not stacking any extra defense than I needed to hit the equivalent of 490). As such I was able to manage close to 17.5k unbuffed in primarily ZA and badge gear whilst maintaining quite a respectable amount of avoidance.

With the transition from high defense/low avoidance blue gear to 10/25 raiding rewards, I've seen the same defense plummet as all plate wearing tanks. To compensate I've stacked a couple of heavy resilience gems (the BoP ones at 27 available only to jewelcrafters) and focused on stamina otherwise.

I'm at nearly 29k unbuffed, 20% dodge, 17% parry and almost 27% block in almost half ilvl213 stuff and the rest ilvl200 epics. I could probably dump the resilience gems now and replace with defense, but is it worth the extreme cost and the risk of finding an upgrade that will drop me below uncritable again? I hate to admit but I don't even know the avoidance spillover in Wrath (25:1 how I miss ye), so I don't know just how much I'm losing here.
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Racerover
Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:47 pm
With that ilevel of gear you aren't defense capped? All resilience does is reduce the mobs ability to crit on you and reduce dot ticks. If you're not at 540 defense that needs to be your first priority over anything else.

I'm assuming that this is you:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Proudmoore&n=Dethedrus

You don't have a weapon equipped so you're sitting at 505 defense. I just don't see the point in using those resil gems. 27 defense gems instead would not only net you crit immunity, but also improve your avoidance stats. Those gems are just gimping you if nothing else. And yes, i'd be embarrassed to equip them. Wink
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leperkhaun
Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:35 pm
you can put 22 def on your chest, shield, and bracers, as a jc where is you def gem. also replace your resil gems with straight def gems.

if you still are below the crit immunem replace you meta with the def one.
phaqueue
Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:54 pm
I honestly will generally refuse to run with a tank who gems resil... it's a terrible tanking stat...

Enchant everything with defense, replace the resil gems with defense, replace the meta if you have to... but stop gemming resil... it's a huge waste of slots that could be used to get you better stats...

also - with that amount of health - you can afford to lose some... if you're using JC stam gems... switch to defense till you are crit immune...
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Majiben
Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:42 am
Defense is not low avoidance.

Since you're not prot I can't give you a good break down but what kind of gear are you wearing? You have no business what so ever wearing resilience anything as a tank. You can:
Gem defense
Enchant defense
Wear daunting gear
Wear a titansteel shield
Stick defense gems in both your JC stamina trinkets if need be
Use the wrymrest cloak, chest and boots.
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Candiru
Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:44 am
The only time resilience is acceptable, is in resist fights. And we haven't got any of them yet in WotLK.

Although, Resilience might be useful on a fight like Loatheb if you were trying to solo it as it (might?) cut down the dot damage.
Candiru
Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:01 am
Well, I'd rather take 3k(9k resisted) than 11k(1k blocked) in an elemental resist fight tbh.
Salamandra
Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:15 am
But resilience wouldn't be causing that resist. It's a completely unfair comparison between wearing tanking gear on one, and using resistance gear on the other. It has nothing to do with resilience.

The reason why resilience is used on resistance fights is because resilience allows you more easily to reach uncrittable than defense does, and uncrittable can be a problem when you're wearing resistance gear with no defense on it.
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Candiru
Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:25 am
Exactly, its very difficult to stay uncritable in resistance gear without resilience.

The other time resilience might be used, is on the 2min trinket. You might need to use that for some fight to escape CC anyway, then the resilience is "free" and can be used to be more flexible with gear. (or just to offset that lost by your previous def trinket)
Salamandra
Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:27 am
If I'm wearing resistance gear, I'd probably just actually use Thaddius' trinket. The PvP trinket is quite the waste for humans.
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Majiben
Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:28 am
We never said not to use any resist gear but if you need to use resilience you're doing it wrong. Here's why:
You'll take a lot more hits. You're dropping your avoidance so low that you're more likely to be hit than to avoid an attack. Your numbers used above are also suspect as 1k BV is far too low for what we'll have in T8 or later. Why T8? Well there is no elemental melee resist fight in T7 would you rather get hit with 60% of the mob's attacks for 3k (9K resist) or 40% of the mob's attacks for 4.5K (7.5K resist) and that's not even considering the blocks or BV of the second scenario.
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Scottzirra
Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:32 pm
My armory can be found:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Destromath&n=Scottzirra

Obviously my gear is not what could be called sub-par. As you can also see I have defense meta in my helm, and several defense gems in. I also have plenty of enchanted defense.

I essentially enchanted/gemmed as much defense as I needed at the time, and as I get upgrades, I put different gems and enchants in/on the new pieces, while always maintaining that 540 def. This is a fairly cost effective way of making sure that you are not crittable, while not gem swapping like someone with bottomless pockets. The worse thing that happens is that I end up anywhere from 2-10 defense skill over the cap, and let's be honest: The avoidance return on it is still good, and it is not worth paying to swap for 24 stam in a single gem slot.

Also, I personally choose to stack as much block value as humanly possible from the gear that drops, so the 21 def 5% BV meta is right up my cobblestone lane.

EDIT: Also, the crafted Titansteel shield is not outrageously expensive, and with a 22 def enchant on it, can help fill some defense skill gaps for you. I do not know what kind of raiding set up you have, and how your tanks are geared, but the defense trinket off thaddius (oh, how i yearn for thee!) can also make up for a lot of defense lost in favor of avoidance, stam, BV, hit, or what have you.
Majiben
Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:19 am
There is no defense cap only a minimum. Secondly you do have subpar gems.

Your boots should be +16 defense, your belt buckle should be +16 dodge or +8 parry/+12 stamina. Your chest gem should be +8 parry/+12 stam should you wish to keep the BR socket bonus, otherwise +16 dodge for your meta bonus. Your shoulders need enchanting and you switch your bracer enchant to +12 defense and change a pure defense gem or two to a def/stam hybrid if that floats your boat. Your weapon lacks an enchant as well. I assume you'll put +20 str on it for the BV. And while we're on that subject why didn't you put +15 str on your gloves? More BV and a higher Ilevel than the +18 stam kit. I assume you're working on getting a better trinket for your first slot. Even the +armor trinket from the 3rd boss in spider wing would give more EH.
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