Slept wrote:You doubled the damage taken but ignored that the BossAttackValue has to double for you to take twice the damage. Also, I think you meant "2 * %damageTaken."
NO. You are messing things up. YOU doubled the damage the boss deals from 40k hits pre armor to 80k hits pre armor, you DON'T double the % of damage taken. Damge Taken is AFTER Damage Reduction, BossAttackValue BEFORE.
Slept wrote:I am taking twice as much damage and mitigating or avoiding twice as much damage
is what you claimed. This is simply
false.
This is your starting point:
%damageTaken = 24000 damageTaken / 80000 BossAttackValue = 0.3
%damage mitigated = 1 - %damageTaken = 1 - 0.3 = 0.7 => damageMitigated = 80000 * 0.7 = 56000 damageMitigated
24000 damageTaken + 56000 damageMitigated = 80000 BossAttackValue.
You now double your %damageTaken:2 * 0.3 %damageTaken = 0.6 %damageTaken. damageTaken = 80000 * 0.6 = 48000
you changed damage taken, which changes your damageMitigated
%mitigation = 1 - %damageTaken = 1 - 0.6 = 0.4 => damageMitigated = 80000 * 0.4 = 32000
48000 damageTaken + 32000 damageMitigated = 80000 BossAttackValue.
"I am taking twice as much damage and mitigating or avoiding twice as much damage"
24000 damageTaken * 2 = 48000 correct ?
56000 damageMitigated / 32000 damageMitigated = 1.75 correct ? is that mitigating twice as much damage ?
is it ?
The BossAttackValue did not change. Why should it.
You do realize that you can take more damage because your gear gets worse no ?
The Boss doesn't have to hit you harder for you to take more damage. Go naked, go figure.Your %damageTaken can increase by changing the following things:
%damageTaken = AverageDamagePerAttack / BossAttackValue,
we agreed on the BossAttackValue not to change.
AverageDamagePerAttack = DamagePerHit * %Hit + DamagePerCrit * %Critical + DamagePerBlock * %Block
Obviously, either your avoidance, your block chance, your chance to be crit, your Block Value or DamageReduction (Armor, RF, BoSanc)
has changed.
%DamageReduction = (Armor / ([467.5 * Enemy_Level] + Armor - 22167.5)) * 100
DamageReduction is not Mitigation !
DamageReduction is the a
mount you reduce damage byMitigation is a measure of
how much of the incoming damage the tank takes, on average.
This is how these terms are defined:Damage Absorbtion = represents the amount of physical damage a player can withstand.
For instance, a character with 5000 health and 50% armor would be able to absorb 10000 damage before dying.
DA = (player health) / (1 - (% damage reduction given by armor in decimal form).
For example, a character with 1000 health and 31.24% damage reduction would be able to absorb 1000 / (1 - .3124) = 1454 (rounded) damage.
Damage Reduction% = Armor / (Armor + 400 + 85 * (AttackerLevel + 4.5 * (AttackerLevel - 59)))
Slept wrote:I think you should ignore boss DPS for the Mitgation Points.
I'm NOT ignoring it, when you look at dps values, DPS is Damge PER 1 Second.
(A / C) / (B / C) = (A / C) * (C / B) = (A * C) / (B * C) = (A / B). Looks familiar ?
(Damage1/AttackSpeed) / (Damage2/AttackSpeed) = (Damage1 / Damage2)
(1 damage / second ) / (2 damage / second) = (1/2) = 0.5 it's a proportion. No units.
Slept wrote:However, if you're going to ignore boss DPS, you have to ignore BossAttackValue and BossAttackSpeed to maintain consistency. If a boss starts hitting twice as fast, I'm going to take twice as much damage. That's just common sense. So why is that not reflected in the Mitgation Points?
Consistency ? What good is a proportion if you don't set it in relation to its origin ?
A mitigation of 0.5 doesn't tell you anything. The boss could be hitting for 10 damage and you'd never even know that your Mitigation kinda is irrelevant because you have like 45k HP raid buffed.
The other way around: The boss could be hitting for a million damage and you wouldn't know that your mitigated damage exceeds your Health because you only look at a number that says "0.5".
If your Mitigation Points are much much greater than your EH, your toe nails should be flipping upside down.AttackSpeed? Your not gonna avoid any more or less on average, just because the boss hits 60 per minute instead of once.
Oh right, your incoming dps may change. Tell them to put one more healer on you.
Slept wrote:Rawr is used to optimise gear, but according to ProtPaladin's Mitigation Points, the best way for me to improve my gear is to wait for the boss to enrage and hit me for 500 000 damage. It makes no sense.
You're being a jerk. Why do you think Overall Points is a sum of EH + Mitigation Points.
Also, on boss enrages, why do people pop shieldwalls and avoidance tinkets on Patchwerk / Maexxna ?
If you don't have enough EH, you're in the wrong instance. A boss enrage of 500k is hardly a gearing issue.
Slept wrote:Furthermore, why would EH remain a constant? If the boss hits me for 1 damage, a minute amount of EH is all that's required, but EH never changes now matter how hard the boss hits. Protpaladin has a rating system where EH is absolute, but mitigation is dependant on how hard the boss hits. That's inconsistent, and it shows when extreme BossAttackValues are used.
So you're telling me your armor suddenly disintegrates and you're unable to dodge/block/parry etc just because the boss hits harder or faster ?
What's the point of this, if the boss hits you a trillion time in one second or once every time the Milkyway rotates around the center of the universe.
Your EH will NOT CHANGE NO MATTER WHAT because your gear doesn't change during combat. (kay now tell me that you forgot to repair, will you). You don't look at one ranking alone. You look at the Overall Value.
Slept wrote:BossAttackValue = 500: ProtPaladin says "Stam is best." Uh, why do I need lots of stam when I'm being hit for 500 every 2 seconds?
BossAttackValue = 100 000: ProtPaladin says "Stack avoidance." Luckily, it won't let me set it any higher. If I could set BossAttackValue to 1 000 000, ProtPaladin would be telling me that avoidance is the best by far, even though a landed hit would one shot me.
Is overgearing content a bad thing ?
Ever thought of why those rogues that tanked Shahraz had 100% avoidance ?
Slept wrote:If all the models use the same rankings, people could compare between them. That would be very interesting and useful.
Although I agree that it's interesting to see what the gearing philosophy of Tankpoints is compared to TTL, sometimes apples are apples, and oranges are oranges. It's the result (gear setup) it spits out, that is interesting. Not the individual ranking points.
Slept wrote:How are people supposed to reasonably decide which items are best when the BossAttackValue slider and the Mitigation Scale slider do practically the same thing? It's hopelessly confusing for someone who doesn't know the underlying formulas for the Mitigation and Survival Points.
You set the BossAttackValue, you equip gear to get "enough" EH for this boss.
You want your gear to be balanced around Mitigation Points being roughly equal to EH.
Usually you can leave the Scale where it is, but when you enter content that is harder or easier than what you come from, you can tweak the scale to gear differently. That's what the scale is about.
Remember that EH = Mitigation Points means,
that your EH is enough to survive the amount of the incoming Damage damage you actually take, on average.